rotation

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As was reinforced in a camp I was at this summer, the lead has the post play. If the post players are on the weak side (and are staying on the weak side), the lead stays weak side...no need to officiate and empty block. If the isolation HAPPENS to drive all the way in, it's the C's (primary) call all the way in with the "helping".

That's my philosophy too. And I want to make it clear, this sitch was only for a few seconds, A1 broke the count, and post players drifted over, necessitating a switch.

Btaylor..........I did attend a well known final four official's camp also hosted by top interp guy in Illinois. This sitch never came up there, yet I was never observed not making enough rotations as lead. The same for a college camp I attended.

I wouldn't describe it as a 'weak' move as you posted. It appears we have varied opinions on this and discourse is good. That said, I'm not here to validate my ability but to share philosophies and learn.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Btaylor..........I did attend a well know final four officials camp also hosted by top interp guy in Illinois. This sitch never came up there, yet I was never observed not making enough rotations as lead. The same for a college camp I attended.

We attended the same camp.

Peace

[fullor30]

[QUOTE=JRutledge]We attended the same camp.

Peace[/QUOTE


I thought you might have..............

Look forward to meeting you, hopefully on the court somewhere.

My favorite camp. Love Fitz's philosophy on stuff.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I thought you might have..............

Look forward to meeting you, hopefully on the court somewhere.

My favorite camp. Love Fitz's philosophy on stuff.

Fitzy has been very helpful to me over the last few years. I have learned a lot from him and the other clinicians at that clinic. It is a really good camp and to learn from all that experiences has added years to my ability.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Fitzy has been very helpful to me over the last few years. I have learned a lot from him and the other clinicians at that clinic. It is a really good camp and to learn from all that experiences has added years to my ability.

Peace

Amen.................I go there and metamorphis(sp) into a sponge.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mick

That's some camp!
If, at your camp, the Lead is on the weak side, then the Trail and Center are on the strong side. Funny thing to teach.

OK, I used the wrong word. (strong side = side with two officials) Sue me!

You get my point....the lead covers the post action and the C may be left alone with the ball. Of course, the most interesting post action is usually going to be on the ball side.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by fullor30

That's my philosophy too. And I want to make it clear, this sitch was only for a few seconds, A1 broke the count, and post players drifted over, necessitating a switch.
Btaylor..........I did attend a well known final four official's camp also hosted by top interp guy in Illinois. This sitch never came up there, yet I was never observed not making enough rotations as lead. The same for a college camp I attended.

I wouldn't describe it as a 'weak' move as you posted. It appears we have varied opinions on this and discourse is good. That said, I'm not here to validate my ability but to share philosophies and learn.

Well I'm glad you are attending camps, thats always good, keep it up.

Then why not do what I and others have said and get over there to beat the play so you can have the play coming to you instead of it going away from you and now you are trying to play catch up?

Let me ask this question. If you are at Lead and you are reffing the post play where the post player has the ball and he spins away from you and toward the slot, are you going to have much credibility on a play that going away from you and toward the slot if you blow the whistle? The slot is in the greatest position to receive this play, as it is coming to him.

I'm sorry I know I'm not going to change your mind, YET. haha I am just trying to give you as much food for thought as I can. I will say this though, it is respectable that the state of Illinois has likeminded officials.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Well I'm glad you are attending camps, thats always good, keep it up.

Then why not do what I and others have said and get over there to beat the play so you can have the play coming to you instead of it going away from you and now you are trying to play catch up?

Let me ask this question. If you are at Lead and you are reffing the post play where the post player has the ball and he spins away from you and toward the slot, are you going to have much credibility on a play that going away from you and toward the slot if you blow the whistle? The slot is in the greatest position to receive this play, as it is coming to him.

I'm sorry I know I'm not going to change your mind, YET. haha I am just trying to give you as much food for thought as I can. I will say this though, it is respectable that the state of Illinois has likeminded officials.

Then why not do what I and others have said and get over there to beat the play so you can have the play coming to you instead of it going away from you and now you are trying to play catch up?

Because I'm going to do 'what I and others have said' . I'll rotate when I need to rotate. Please reread previous posts from others for their rationale.

What play am I beating? I have a good sense of what's happening on the court and this example we've been discussing, there wasn't going to be any play to 'beat'. In fact the more we discuss this, the more comfortable I am in my decision. More to the point, based on my instincts, there was no play to 'beat'. I liken this to a school crossing guard getting to his deserted corner an two hours before school gets out to 'beat' the rush.

I certainly wouldn't criticize you for rotating in this case if you feel it makes you a better official. I don't feel there is a right or wrong here. If we 'went to the videotape' we might have legitimate evidence of the urgency for a rotation but we don't.

I will say this though, it is respectable that the state of Illinois has likeminded officials

And well educated!

Can I ask what state you're from?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Then why not do what I and others have said and get over there to beat the play so you can have the play coming to you instead of it going away from you and now you are trying to play catch up?

Because I'm going to do what others have said and myself. I'll rotate when I need to rotate. Please reread previous posts from others for their rationale.

What play am I beating? I have a good sense of what's happening on the court and this example we've been discussing, there wasn't going to be any play to 'beat'. In fact the more we discuss this, the more comfortable I am in my decision. More to the point, based on my instincts, there was no play to 'beat'. I liken this to a school crossing guard getting to his corner an hour before school gets out to 'beat' the rush.

Can I ask what state you're from?

Not only should you not worry about getting "beat," the ball might come right back where all the players are. Players do not follow the ball like a moth to light. Anyone who thinks that has not watched a lot of basketball. Players move without the ball on the backside just to make sure they get an open shot.

Peace

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Then why not do what I and others have said and get over there to beat the play so you can have the play coming to you instead of it going away from you and now you are trying to play catch up?

Because I'm going to do 'what I and others have said' . I'll rotate when I need to rotate. Please reread previous posts from others for their rationale.

What play am I beating? I have a good sense of what's happening on the court and this example we've been discussing, there wasn't going to be any play to 'beat'. In fact the more we discuss this, the more comfortable I am in my decision. More to the point, based on my instincts, there was no play to 'beat'. I liken this to a school crossing guard getting to his deserted corner an two hours before school gets out to 'beat' the rush.

I certainly wouldn't criticize you for rotating in this case if you feel it makes you a better official. I don't feel there is a right or wrong here. If we 'went to the videotape' we might have legitimate evidence of the urgency for a rotation but we don't.


I will say this though, it is respectable that the state of Illinois has likeminded officials

And well educated!

Can I ask what state you're from?

Well apparently those post players just "drifting" over to the post were not of enough importance to referee and get over in time to be set and referee that match up or evolving play.

Also I have grown up around basketball all my life. I started playing when I was 5, been reffing and being taught how to referee by the best in the nation at both the NBA (mainly) and the NCAA level since I was 17 and to not believe that the most action on a ball court happens around or near the ball does not, whatsoever, make basketball sense to me.

While I have said it already, I respect your opinion and I believe you respect mine, I just wish I could persuade you to change your thought process on this play, but it is what it is.

[fullor30]

Btaylor.............

You'll be happy to know that tonight in a Varsity game,almost the same sitch and I followed my instincts and slid over arriving ball side just ahead of a play I had a perfect angle on. There was nothing ,but if I stayed home, I might have guessed.

I know what you're saying, just in the sitch I had in the original post, it really was the right non move. We talked about this in pregame a little and both partners were college refs and one said in particular he rotates constantly as a lead, he also streched his C alot and I came over more than usual. It was fine.

Again, my point is I learned something and have plenty of views from the 'elders' here.

I can't lose..........

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Btaylor.............

You'll be happy to know that tonight in a Varsity game,almost the same sitch and I followed my instincts and slid over arriving ball side just ahead of a play I had a perfect angle on. There was nothing ,but if I stayed home, I might have guessed.

I know what you're saying, just in the sitch I had in the original post, it really was the right non move. We talked about this in pregame a little and both partners were college refs and one said in particular he rotates constantly as a lead, he also streched his C alot and I came over more than usual. It was fine.

Again, my point is I learned something and have plenty of views from the 'elders' here.

I can't lose..........

Good to hear.