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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 11:34am
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I heard about this one the other day. A1 is bringing the ball up the court, slowly, with no pressure. She suddenly stops and asks the referee if she can tie her shoe. The ref made some sort of non-commital gesture (I was told.) At this point, A1 stopped, set the ball on the floor, and prodeeded to tie her shoe. Then she picked the ball up and passed it to a teammate, barely beating the 10 second count. Is there a violation here or not? Most of the fellows that I have talked to have said not.
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 12:57pm
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She didn't dribble again, so there's no double dribble.
If she put her knee down when she tied her shoe, picked the ball up, and stood, then she traveled. I don't see any other possibilities. I don't call TO to allow a player to tie her shoe.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 01:00pm
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Unless she bent at the waist and not at the knee, this is a travel when she picks up the ball (same as going to a knee with the ball).
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 02:35pm
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Not if she stands back up before she picks up the ball.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 02:54pm
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aren't we responsible for the safety of the players? unless there was a fastbreak, i would have put air in the whistle and allowed her to tie her shoe. what would be the big deal about doing that?
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foxyref
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 03:02pm
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Quote:
Quote:
 I am really confused on this point. Why would it be a travel if she bent her knee, never contacting the floor, and than stood while holding the ball? While I hate having to ask for rule and case book references I really need some help on this one.
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 03:09pm
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Try this, yo.
Quote:
A1 closely guarded, ends dribble and puts ball on the floor and stands with B1 still within 6 feet. Not holding, not dribbling. End count. 
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 03:59pm
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Guys - the rule about putting the ball down and then standing up deals with a player on the floor who has lost his dribble. He sets the ball down, then stands up, then picks up the ball. The call is a travel, because it is ruled that he tried to circumvent the rule that if he would have stood up while holding the ball, it's a travel.
In the case described here, there is no violation, even if her knee touched while she was down, as long as she didn't dribble again. It would be ruled the same as an interrupted dribble. If during an interrupted dribble, a player's knee happens to hit the ground, then they grab the ball and pass it, you don't call a violation, do you? (I must admit, I have never seen this) BTW - in similar situations, when a player asks if they can have play stopped to tie their shoe, I reply that they have to use a timeout (if the situation lets me have that much time to respond). If it doesn't, I ignore them so there is no doubt on their part that they cannot. At the next dead ball, I tell all players to check their shoes (and, of course, tuck in their jerseys) [Edited by Mark Padgett on Jan 27th, 2002 at 03:02 PM]
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Yom HaShoah
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 04:44pm
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Self-pass
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Tony, I am seeing a pass to herself. She voluntarily released the ball, then tied her shoe, then picked up her pass to herself. mick
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 04:57pm
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Quote:
__________________
"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 06:09pm
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Mick,
That is a bit finicky- would you really blow that and try to sell or explain the outcry-I think not! Pistol
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Pistol
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 06:18pm
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Quote:
I believe most of us are envisioning that she put her knee on the floor. So if we rule with that in mind, then the "correct" rulings here are based on 4.43.5 Situations B, C and D and on 4-43-5. The Reader's Digest of those citations says that it is illegal to touch the floor with anything other than the foot or hand while holding the ball; and it is illegal to rise when you recover a ball (unless you are dribbling or you relinquish the ball until someone else touches it). The call is traveling for the illegal situations. So, she traveled if she went to a knee, rose and then recovered the ball (before someone else touched the ball). [Edited by Slider on Jan 27th, 2002 at 05:22 PM]
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 06:23pm
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I dunno.
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It just doesn't seem right to ignore. I am not sure what to do. Ain't an interrupted dribble. Ain't a travel. Ain't exactly right. The only saving grace is that it would probably not happen except at the level where nobody wants to make a deal of it, so it is "easily" excused. mick
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Sun Jan 27, 2002, 06:42pm
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Treat it like a fumble recovery as long as she doesn't dribble again she is ok- Remember the old D-F-D = BAD,but F-D-F=Good
Consider this-she dribbles down the floor . , fumbles the ball then goes recovers the fumble and then passes or shoots. Ok eh!!! If the defenders let her do it and 10 seconds isn't called in the meantime everythings' great.
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Pistol
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