2-man To question...

[Adam]

Let's do a poll. Where's M&M Guy today?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

They're common as hell actually. The usual one is a foul of some kind(personal or technical) called after an initial foul(personal or technical) was called, but before the clock starts next. It could be a technical foul for a coach complaining or a player retaliating, double unsporting technicals on players, fouls during FT's, etc. The only other criteria needed is that you have fouls by both teams.

Yup. Or a foul before the ball is touched inbounds on a throwin.
Most fights should be ruled this way, as well, if they start during a live ball. Flagrant Personal followed by a Flagrant Technical on the retaliation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let's do a poll. Where's M&M Guy today?

Let's start another one.

Who cares?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Let's start another one.

Who cares?

Good point. You know? I haven't seen Dan around, either. Maybe they're together.

[M&M Guy]

I just got out of the shower...what'd I miss?

[Jurassic Referee]

Shut up.

[mick]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I just got out of the shower...what'd I miss?

Behind your ears.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Without intending to start a new direction for this thread because we've discussed the following to death many times, I still can't believe anyone is "told" or practices intentionally not calling a deserved foul on a "star" player based on the game situation. This is truly making a mockery of the game and calling the game in a manner that is absolutely unfair and biased. I don't care what rationalization you use, it is totally wrong.

I know you didn't intend to take this in a different direction but i can't let this ride. One of the village idiots weighed in with his opinion. I have another.

What you are advocating is hypocrisy if your position is it is “totally wrong.” Part of being a professional official (this is taught at the NBA level) is knowing your environment before going in. What that means is knowing what transpired the last time these two teams met. Was there an incident? If so, which players where involved? Did the team win or lose their last game? Is this a must win for one of the teams? Could a coaches job be on the line if he doesn’t win this game? Do we have any star athletes? The official that knows this info going into every game is more prepared imo to referee that game then the offficial who doesn't care.

Star athletes (S/A) are the attraction. Without star athlete, we may have 20 folks in a gym that seats 1000. With the S/A, gym is full. Remember when LeBron was in HS, they could no longer host his games in the hs gym because it simply wasn't big enough to hold all the fans, therefore, all his games was moved to an arena. Now, if your position is to call the game without any regards to the S/A that are playing in the game. Then you just made the game about you. Guaranteed, if you got 4 fouls on LeBron in the first half and you don’t care about that, guaranteed you won’t be asked to work anymore of his games or any other games involving a S/A.

If you are an official that aspires to work the best games, the best quality games. The best quality games are the games with the best or star athletes. When an assigner is challenged with putting a crew of officials on a game like this, you can believe one of the criteria is an official that doesn’t have a chip on his shoulder, that takes everything into consideration. Not only will you never be asked to work another game like this in the future, should you make the mistake of fouling LeBron (when he played HS) out in the 1st quarter or 1st half, but you would put your assigner in hot water too, because they’re going to think the assigner is an idiot putting an official like you on this type of game.

What I’m saying, is the official that takes every significant variable into consideration, and a S/A, that has the gym packed is a significant variable. This official is the one you want on the game. It is hypocrisy to say this shouldn't matter.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

I don't care about timeouts until the last minute of the game and the only thing I care then is if they got a timeout left.

It *can* be good game management to know whether a team has only one type of TO left (either 30-second or full). Then, you can give the correct signal as soon as the TO is granted and don't ask the coach which type he wants when there's only one possible answer.

Originally Posted by Old School

(this is taught at the NBA level)

While some of what you say applies at all levels, the "protect the star" should not apply below the NBA level -- and that's 99.9% of what's discussed here.

[JohnBark]

Originally Posted by Old School

I don't care how long Mr. Bark has been officiating, this is what he said....

i worked my first 2-man last night with my usual partner.

FIRST meaning the first game of THIS year. And yes, I've been around for a few years. I should have been more clear in my posting! My goodness!

[Old School]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It *can* be good game management to know whether a team has only one type of TO left (either 30-second or full). Then, you can give the correct signal as soon as the TO is granted and don't ask the coach which type he wants when there's only one possible answer.

True

While some of what you say applies at all levels, the "protect the star" should not apply below the NBA level -- and that's 99.9% of what's discussed here.

If you think my message was about protecting the star athlete, then you missed my point.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JohnBark

FIRST meaning the first game of THIS year. And yes, I've been around for a few years. I should have been more clear in my posting! My goodness!

Not your fault, John. As I told him, just because a post confuses Old School doesn't mean that post is in itself confusing. It's a fundamental concept of this board now.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JohnBark

FIRST meaning the first game of THIS year. And yes, I've been around for a few years. I should have been more clear in my posting! My goodness!

Sorry John, it matters not to me, I just got called on my response and I had to defend my position. I agree, my goodness but if you're going to hold me to a higher standard then you have to hold everyone to the same standard.

[JohnBark]

Originally Posted by Old School

Sorry John, it matters not to me, I just got called on my response and I had to defend my position. I agree, my goodness but if you're going to hold me to a higher standard then you have to hold everyone to the same standard.

This is one reason I don't post here very often. However, I do read the various post, because usually the post and the responses are very helpful to me. But, I don't want to hold anyone to a higher standard. Doesn't matter to me what level you are or aren't, how old you are or aren't. I just want an answer or an opinion. The constant "picking" at all the other posters just isn't called for. The nip picking on this forum drives me nuts. So, I have a choice post here or just read the post. And I choice to post rarely here, but usually read the post every weekday to see what's happening in the world of basketball officiating.

And who cares if it was my first ever game officiating or my first game of the year? It has NOTHING to do with the question, which was to find out how the rest of the official acrossed the country who read and post topics here are handling the situation that we ALL must deal with if you are working any 2-man this year. I was stunned that this post has gone onto 5 pages. I never thought it would. But, I guess on this forum I should have expected that. Oh well...to each his own!!!

I do appreciate the responses and will take them under consideration as I prepare for my 2nd game of 2-man THIS year. NOT my 2nd game ever of 2-man, but to be CLEAR, my 2nd 2-man game of the year!

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by Splute

I like SWMOzebra's approach.

Thanks, Splute!