2-man To question...

[mick]

Originally Posted by Splute

I like SWMOzebra's approach. I will inquire tonight at our chapter training what our method will be. I still want to check on fouls, t.o.s remaining, etc at every opportunity.

You feel the need to know what:

Fouls per team ?
Fouls per best player ?
Time-outs remaining ?

Why?

[Splute]

Originally Posted by mick

You feel the need to know what:

Fouls per team ?
Fouls per best player ?
Time-outs remaining ?

Why?

No, not for implied favoritism, for knowledge of where I am in the game. How many t.o.'s each coach has remaining. Are we approaching a possible extra time out call? If a player is in foul trouble it keeps me aware that we may soon have an interupter to replace a player and I would like to expedite the process and manage the remaining players. In my mind it keeps me focused on the game. Based on your question, do you feel this information is not necessary? Am I considering things that are wasting my time?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Splute

No, not for implied favoritism, for knowledge of where I am in the game. How many t.o.'s each coach has remaining. Are we approaching a possible extra time out call? If a player is in foul trouble it keeps me aware that we may soon have an interupter to replace a player and I would like to expedite the process and manage the remaining players. In my mind it keeps me focused on the game. Based on your question, do you feel this information is not necessary? Am I considering things that are wasting my time?

If you think a team might be out of time outs, you could check so you can notify the coach.

If you think a team might be near 7 or 10 fouls you can check so you can help avoid a correctable error.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If you think a team might be out of time outs, you could check so you can notify the coach.

If you think a team might be near 7 or 10 fouls you can check so you can help avoid a correctable error.

Wouldn't a T.O. be a good time to do this? I also check the score at breaks to hopefully avoid possible errors later. Any other suggestions on administrative techniques? Are there routines that many of you follow?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Splute

Wouldn't a T.O. be a good time to do this? I also check the score at breaks to hopefully avoid possible errors later. Any other suggestions on administrative techniques? Are there routines that many of you follow?

Good advice. This has saved me more than once.

[bigdog5142]

Maybe I have the "old book", but in the NFHS 2005-2007 Official's Manual, numbers 273-275 pertain to time-out positioning. This states that both officials take positions opposite and facing the scorer's table on the nearest block. On 30-second time-outs, the officials take positions a the top of the arc. At the first horn, each official tells the huddle closest to them "first horn" and then assumes positions to resume play. Am I reading this wrong? I officiated in 1996-1998 in Oregon and the mechanic was the throw-in administering official took the ball to the throw-in spot and the other official took position mid-court opposite the table halfway between the center circle and the opposite sideline. I just want to get my mechanics straight as they've changed in the last 8 years! Thanks!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bigdog5142

Maybe I have the "old book", but in the NFHS 2005-2007 Official's Manual,

It's been changed.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by bigdog5142

Maybe I have the "old book", but in the NFHS 2005-2007 Official's Manual, numbers 273-275 pertain to time-out positioning. This states that both officials take positions opposite and facing the scorer's table on the nearest block. On 30-second time-outs, the officials take positions a the top of the arc. At the first horn, each official tells the huddle closest to them "first horn" and then assumes positions to resume play. Am I reading this wrong? I officiated in 1996-1998 in Oregon and the mechanic was the throw-in administering official took the ball to the throw-in spot and the other official took position mid-court opposite the table halfway between the center circle and the opposite sideline. I just want to get my mechanics straight as they've changed in the last 8 years! Thanks!

Yep, that's from the "old" book. Follow the link JR posted - the Fed is essentially going back to what you remember from Oregon.

I'm going to go take another shower.

[bigdog5142]

This is the book that the MHSAA (Michigan) sent to me...should I assume that we're using this mechanic? I've got JH Girls Basketball right now and the official rules meeting for us isn't until October for HS games...I guess I'll contact my assignor.

Thanks for the clarification M&M's!

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Splute

No, not for implied favoritism, for knowledge of where I am in the game. How many t.o.'s each coach has remaining. Are we approaching a possible extra time out call? If a player is in foul trouble it keeps me aware that we may soon have an interupter to replace a player and I would like to expedite the process and manage the remaining players. In my mind it keeps me focused on the game. Based on your question, do you feel this information is not necessary? Am I considering things that are wasting my time?

I would say as an official you would be wasting your time with the minute stuff. The table will notify you at the appropriate time. I would just say officiate the game.

[Splute]

I am starting with Sub Varsity of course and have heard many horror stories regarding poor books and clock, etc. I am trying to find ways to minimize these issues. Perhaps they really are minor in the big scheme and team fouls is sufficient. I try to make a point to see if the clock starts / stops and AP is changed. Keep the advice coming.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Splute

I am starting with Sub Varsity of course and have heard many horror stories regarding poor books and clock, etc. I am trying to find ways to minimize these issues. Perhaps they really are minor in the big scheme and team fouls is sufficient. I try to make a point to see if the clock starts / stops and AP is changed. Keep the advice coming.

Your biggest problem usually at this level will be getting the scorer to track the bonus' properly and inform you correctly. Time-outs and foul-outs take care of themselves. You have to trust the scorer to enter the right #s on fouls and keep the correct count of TO's. You can't do their jobs.

Keeping an eye on the clock and the arrow is always a good idea though at any level.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Your biggest problem usually at this level will be getting the scorer to track the bonus' properly and inform you correctly. Time-outs and foul-outs take care of themselves. You have to trust the scorer to enter the right #s on fouls and keep the correct count of TO's. You can't do their jobs.

Keeping an eye on the clock and the arrow is always a good idea though at any level.

sounds like a good opportunity to use rule 2-10; if caught in time. Just when you think you will never have that in your game..... hum. Thanks.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Splute

sounds like a good opportunity to use rule 2-10; if caught in time. Just when you think you will never have that in your game..... hum. Thanks.

Actually, scoring errors can be corrected at any time until the end of the game. No need for 2-10 at all. Use 2-11-11.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Splute

I am starting with Sub Varsity of course and have heard many horror stories regarding poor books and clock, etc. I am trying to find ways to minimize these issues. Perhaps they really are minor in the big scheme and team fouls is sufficient. I try to make a point to see if the clock starts / stops and AP is changed. Keep the advice coming.

I disagree with JR when he says it is pointless to know the foul status of some players, but that is another conversation for another day. But at the Sub Varsity level your games are not likely going to be in the media coverage or talked about beyond a score given on a website that is not something you really need to know that closely at that level. Also if you are in tuned to the game, you will realize you have called a certain number of fouls on a specific player anyway.

All those things you talked about do not need a conversation with the table to figure those things out. The table is supposed to inform you the timeout situation (and only when they are out of timeouts by the way). If the table does not tell you, I personally would not worry about it. Coaches should know how many timeouts they have anyway. They called them and they are always next to the table to ask if they are unsure.

The main reason I think many have a problem with this, you do not want to get dragged into a conversation that you really do not want to have (which a coach for example) at that time. If a coach is really mad and you are by the table, it is harder to avoid a T as opposed to if you are standing near mid-court and they have to come out to get you. There are always exceptions, but I would not want to make a habit for me having to go to the table for everything.

Peace