NBA Charge Foul rules

[ATXCoach]

I am the worst kind of coach (an AAU / summer league coach) . I coach girls, and my current team will be 8th and 9th graders.

To go along with the flopping talk previously in this thread - I hate it, I don't coach it, and I hate when it gets rewarded at any level. I teach my bigs to slide over get their arms up and to be a brick wall. Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as they get there first (and the shooter isn't in the air, etc.), then this isn't a foul on the defender. Unfortunately, my bigs are still relatively young and are more like a paper wall. What I mean is that the contact gets them in the stomach or chest, and they end up bending at the hip a little, arms come forward, and they get called for the foul. (the calls are not blocking fouls, they are hacking fouls)

I am at a loss because I feel there are occasions when if they would scream and fall backwards then they would get the charge call, but I won't ever teach that. I feel the defender is set, the offensive player contacts the defensive player, then the defensive player reacts to the contact. It seems like a charge to me.

Obviously I am not saying this happens every time and I know there are times when they get block happy and miss - I get that. Just looking for a rules explanation so I can tweak how I coach, if i need to.

Thanks in advance

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

I am the worst kind of coach (an AAU / summer league coach) . I coach girls, and my current team will be 8th and 9th graders.

To go along with the flopping talk previously in this thread - I hate it, I don't coach it, and I hate when it gets rewarded at any level. I teach my bigs to slide over get their arms up and to be a brick wall. Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as they get there first (and the shooter isn't in the air, etc.), then this isn't a foul on the defender. Unfortunately, my bigs are still relatively young and are more like a paper wall. What I mean is that the contact gets them in the stomach or chest, and they end up bending at the hip a little, arms come forward, and they get called for the foul. (the calls are not blocking fouls, they are hacking fouls)

I am at a loss because I feel there are occasions when if they would scream and fall backwards then they would get the charge call, but I won't ever teach that. I feel the defender is set, the offensive player contacts the defensive player, then the defensive player reacts to the contact. It seems like a charge to me.

Obviously I am not saying this happens every time and I know there are times when they get block happy and miss - I get that. Just looking for a rules explanation so I can tweak how I coach, if i need to.

Thanks in advance

Coach. It looks to me, if it's happening as you say it is, that the officials are missing some player control fouls. Hitting the defender in the stomach with enough force to make her bend into the shooter strikes me as either a PC foul or a no-call.

note: I have no reason to doubt that it's happening as you say it is.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

I am the worst kind of coach (an AAU / summer league coach) . I coach girls, and my current team will be 8th and 9th graders.

To go along with the flopping talk previously in this thread - I hate it, I don't coach it, and I hate when it gets rewarded at any level. I teach my bigs to slide over get their arms up and to be a brick wall. Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as they get there first (and the shooter isn't in the air, etc.), then this isn't a foul on the defender. Unfortunately, my bigs are still relatively young and are more like a paper wall. What I mean is that the contact gets them in the stomach or chest, and they end up bending at the hip a little, arms come forward, and they get called for the foul. (the calls are not blocking fouls, they are hacking fouls)

I am at a loss because I feel there are occasions when if they would scream and fall backwards then they would get the charge call, but I won't ever teach that. I feel the defender is set, the offensive player contacts the defensive player, then the defensive player reacts to the contact. It seems like a charge to me.

Obviously I am not saying this happens every time and I know there are times when they get block happy and miss - I get that. Just looking for a rules explanation so I can tweak how I coach, if i need to.

Thanks in advance

Personally when I think of flopping, I think of a player falling back even when there was little or no contact, certainly not enough to cause the defender to fall back. However, perhaps your players are overdoing it, anticipating the contact and leaning into it. I think that "be a brick wall" is certainly a sound philosophy for your defenders, but be sure to emphasize verticality, and if heavy contact is imminent, even leaning slightly away to cushion the blow is okay. Moreover, if the contact is sufficient to cause displacement, there is no shame in falling backward, and this shouldn't keep you from getting a call. I strongly agree with you about avoiding the screaming thing.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

To go along with the flopping talk previously in this thread - I hate it, I don't coach it, and I hate when it gets rewarded at any level. I teach my bigs to slide over get their arms up and to be a brick wall. Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as they get there first (and the shooter isn't in the air, etc.), then this isn't a foul on the defender. Unfortunately, my bigs are still relatively young and are more like a paper wall. What I mean is that the contact gets them in the stomach or chest, and they end up bending at the hip a little, arms come forward, and they get called for the foul. (the calls are not blocking fouls, they are hacking fouls)

I am at a loss because I feel there are occasions when if they would scream and fall backwards then they would get the charge call, but I won't ever teach that. I feel the defender is set, the offensive player contacts the defensive player, then the defensive player reacts to the contact. It seems like a charge to me.

Obviously I am not saying this happens every time and I know there are times when they get block happy and miss - I get that. Just looking for a rules explanation so I can tweak how I coach, if i need to.

Thanks in advance

to me coach, you just define why you should flop. You may not agree with it, lord knows there are many things I don't agree with when it comes to the rules. But until they change the rules you are doing your girls a disservice by not teaching them the proper way to defend this play. Remember, flopping is illegal, however, if there's contact and you fall back, I don't like the word flop here, that is not illegal. I saw a similiar play in the USA vs. Argentina Gold Medal game where the big player from Argetina was standing in the lane and Chauncey Billups plowed into him on the drive to the bucket, he stood his ground, and his arms came down, just like you stated, and he got hit with the foul. He then turned and kick that rotating billbroad on the floor and broke it. He was then given a technical and Chauncey shot 4 shots and the USA team got the ball back. FIBA rules suck here but anyway, had he would have sold the contact on contact instead of standing his ground, would have been an easy offensive foul call to make, because they where playing a zone.

If they stand like a wall and a player crashes into them and they hold their ground, chances are, that's going to be a no call. However, if they are bending and the arms fall forward into the shooter, then we got this 2nd thing occurring with the arms coming down into the shooters space, easy foul call to make on the shot. If they flop as you guys call it, or just sell the initial contact, IOW's, give it the Dennis Rodman treatment, the only thing i have to do is verify if there is contact, offense!

If you don't want to teach the contact and fall back (not a flop) teach them to play defense. IOWs go up and block the shot. If it's big on big, you get the desired result with your defensive tactic, but if it's big on small, bigger player need to block the shot instead of trying to hold their ground, imho. Bigger players don't need to be flopping either when a smaller player comes into them.

[Jimgolf]

I'm not going to argue the technical merits of the writer's suggestion. Personally, my judgment isn't good enough to determine whether a collision is a block or a charge in real time at the NBA level. I have trouble even watching in slow motion sometimes.

The point is that the NBA is unwatchable for many former fans. Many posters on this board have stated proudly that they haven't watched a game in years. More than at any other level basketball, the NBA game is about what's good for the fans, not for the players or the officials or the coaches. Personally, I like the game the way it is, except that the Knicks always lose.

Officials have a unique perspective, in that they watch more basketball than almost anyone else, and they understand how the various rule changes can affect the play. If there is a way to improve the NBA game so that you'll watch it, I'd like to hear it.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

If there is a way to improve the NBA game so that you'll watch it, I'd like to hear it.

Bring back the closely guarded 5-second count. That way, Lebron would have to pass the ball to a teammate, and not score all the points in the 4th quarter, and put everybody to sleep, including the Pistons.

Do away with the 3 seconds defense in the lane. Shooting technicals only slows the game down.

Do not allow players to talk to officials, only captains.

To name a few....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

If there is a way to improve the NBA game so that you'll watch it, I'd like to hear it.

Just calling the rules that they already have might be a good start. Traveling and palming, for example, are very inconsistently called and I don't have a clue what a foul consists of either.