charge and player control foul

[refnjoe]

This is my first year officiating, and I have been browsing the forum for a few weeks now. I have found this to be extremely helpful- well most of the time.

One thread (which I can't find anymore) made me question my thinking on charge calls. Someone referred to a coach asking a ref, "so you're saying, it is a charge and not a player control foul?" And the ref said yes.

That was the end of the post and no one seemed to clarify/question this. Perhaps because it was implied that the ref was clueless?

As I see it, charging, by definition, IS a player-control foul. Am I missing something? Are there exceptions?

Also, what is the proper mechanic for calling these and reporting to the table? Do you use the player control foul on the floor, and then use the charge signal when reporting? Or...

[IREFU2]

I believe that in the definition of a player control it says something or is referred some where as charging into a player:

SECTION 6 CONTACT
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not: hold, push, charge, trip; nor impede the progress of an opponent by extending an arm, shoulder, hip or knee, or by bending the body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics. He/she shall not contact an opponent with his/her hand unless such contact is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball. The use of hands on an opponent in any way that inhibits the freedom of movement of the opponent or acts as an aid to a player in starting or stopping is not legal. Extending the arms fully or partially other than vertically so that freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with the arms occurs is not legal. These positions are employed when rebounding, screening or in various aspects of postplay. A player may not use the forearm and hand to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal. A player may hold the hands and arms in front of his/her face or body for protection and to absorb force from an imminent charge by an opponent. It is a form of pushing when the player holding the ball is contacted by a defensive player who approaches from behind. Contact that is caused by the momentum of a player who has thrown for a goal is a form of charging.

The proper term is player-control foul which is a offensive foul. The correct mechanic is fist in the air, then hand behind the head and point in the opposite direction. Now, may official do many different signals pertaining to this and I myself just come straight out with the offensive "NBA" punch on the spot. Then when I report, I go behind my head. Hope this helps.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by refnjoe

This is my first year officiating, and I have been browsing the forum for a few weeks now. I have found this to be extremely helpful- well most of the time.

One thread (which I can't find anymore) made me question my thinking on charge calls. Someone referred to a coach asking a ref, "so you're saying, it is a charge and not a player control foul?" And the ref said yes.

That was the end of the post and no one seemed to clarify/question this. Perhaps because it was implied that the ref was clueless?

As I see it, charging, by definition, IS a player-control foul. Am I missing something? Are there exceptions?

Also, what is the proper mechanic for calling these and reporting to the table? Do you use the player control foul on the floor, and then use the charge signal when reporting? Or...

A PC foul is a foul be a player in control of the ball. This player can charge, hold, block, illegally use hands, .... USe the PC foul signal (hand behind head) when reporting.

When a player not holding the ball charges, holds, blocks, illegally uses hands, etc., it's not a PC foul. Use the appropriate signal (push, hold, etc)

[Kevzebra]

I think a simple way to look at it is this:

A player with the ball crashes into a defender; PC foul. Punch or behind head signal.

A player that passes the ball then crashes into a defender; charging. Give push signal, do not go behind head.

Main difference is that one has the ball (or has just released it) and one does not.

Hope that helps!

[refnjoe]

Got it! Thanks for the replies.

I get the player with ball, crashes into defender= player control, hand behind head signal.

Now, the offensive player without the ball, would that not be a team control foul, with the punch signal?

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by refnjoe

Got it! Thanks for the replies.

I get the player with ball, crashes into defender= player control, hand behind head signal.

Now, the offensive player without the ball, would that not be a team control foul, with the punch signal?

You almost got it. The off ball player or the shooter who has passed the ball install of shooting is considered a Team Control Foul and you come out with the punch. You need to read up on what constitutes team control vs. player control. You can have both, either one, or none.

[refnjoe]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

You almost got it. The off ball player or the shooter who has passed the ball install of shooting is considered a Team Control Foul and you come out with the punch. You need to read up on what constitutes team control vs. player control. You can have both, either one, or none.

I thought that's what I said?

So, that begs the question- when do we have a charge that IS NOT a team control or a player control?

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by refnjoe

I thought that's what I said?

So, that begs the question- when do we have a charge that IS NOT a team control or a player control?

Good question and I want to say never or if the defense charges into the offensive person which would be a foul or during a dead ball situation. I am sure others will chime in on this if I am incorrect.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by refnjoe

So, that begs the question- when do we have a charge that IS NOT a team control or a player control?

When any player charges when there is no team control or a defensive player charges when there is team control.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by refnjoe

I thought that's what I said?

So, that begs the question- when do we have a charge that IS NOT a team control or a player control?

Do not get it twisted in your mind. A charge is simply a "push." The term team control and player control fouls have more to do when the fouls occur rather than what action is considered a foul.

Peace

[refnjoe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Do not get it twisted in your mind. A charge is simply a "push." The term team control and player control fouls have more to do when the fouls occur rather than what action is considered a foul.

Peace

Thanks JRut, that is good advice and a good way for this rookie to keep it straight in my head!
Mainly, I just wanted to make sure I had the mechanics right, and the post I mentioned in my original message made me doubt myself.

I appreciate all the help!

[Jimgolf]

A charge is when one player runs into another. This can be a player on either offense or defense. I'm guessing that JRut is saying that the signal used is the same as the one used for pushing.

[Adam]

Defensively, you'll see it when a player runs through a screen. the problem is it's easy to confuse the terminology with people use "charge" and "Player control foul" interchangeably. They're not. A foul can easily be a charge and not a PC, and a PC foul can easily be something besides a charge. Rut's right, "PC" refers to the circumstances (who has the ball) and "charge" refers to the type of contact, or what the player was doing to earn the foul.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

A charge is when one player runs into another. This can be a player on either offense or defense. I'm guessing that JRut is saying that the signal used is the same as the one used for pushing.

Jim,

If you look in the back of the rulebook with all the signals, the signal that we use and most know of as a push is the same signal they use for charging. It really does not matter either way; these signals are just descriptions so you can describe what you feel the foul was. Only PC, TC, intentional, double and technical fouls have any specific application if called. It really does not matter if you call a push or a charge.

Peace

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by refnjoe

I thought that's what I said?

So, that begs the question- when do we have a charge that IS NOT a team control or a player control?

When a player releases the ball during a try and returns to the floor (no longer an airborne shooter) and charges into the defender.

Mregor