Throw-in/Traveling

[IchiRef]

Long-time reader, first time poster... I am a sophomore official and i have a couple of question about some situations:

1) a player dives at a loose ball and his momentum causes him to slide a across the floor. This is legal, correct?

2) a player who is lying on their back with the ball may sit up legally, correct?

3) I saw this many times last year and it seems a little fishy to me. A1 is inbounding the ball to A2. A1 uses a bounce pass which, on its way to A2 bounces either out of bounds or on the line (which I believe is the same as out of bounds) violation?

Thanks for your help.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IchiRef

Long-time reader, first time poster... I am a sophomore official and i have a couple of question about some situations:

1) a player dives at a loose ball and his momentum causes him to slide a across the floor. This is legal, correct?

Completely legal. The only way it would be illegal is if the ball handler somehow flipped over or tried to get up. Sliding on the floor alone is not a violation of the rules.

Originally Posted by IchiRef

2) a player who is lying on their back with the ball may sit up legally, correct?

Legal. If you are talking about just sitting up and not trying to get completely off the floor.

Originally Posted by IchiRef

3) I saw this many times last year and it seems a little fishy to me. A1 is inbounding the ball to A2. A1 uses a bounce pass which, on its way to A2 bounces either out of bounds or on the line (which I believe is the same as out of bounds) violation?

This is a violation. You have to complete the pass without touching the out of bounds lines.

Peace

[Lcubed48]

As a rising junior official, here are my answers.
1) legal play - there is no player control yet established so no violation.
2) legal play - A1 may sit up but he/she may not attempt to stand up.
3) illegal play - that's a violation - the throw in must be directly from OOB to IB.
Good questions BTW.
My rule/case books are not handy so I can't quote chapter and verse, but I'm sure that someone else will be posting that info for all to read.

[Back In The Saddle]

How many of you would call this third one?

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

How many of you would call this third one?

In the games I ref, I have only seen this once and I called it. The A1 was on the sideline and threw the pass oob along the sideline with english so it spun back onto the playing area after the bounce. A2 had B2 boxed and it was an easy retrieve for him.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

How many of you would call this third one?

I probably will not make this call on the endline..

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

How many of you would call this third one?

I have called it and will call it again.

Peace

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

How many of you would call this third one?

Good question. I would call it, but I know some officials would pass on it. I had a similar situation at camp this summer. A1 while making his throw in barely but clearly steps on the OOB line. There was no press or pressure being applied on the play, but I make the call. The observer asks why. I simply answered that it's a violation. He gave me his take which I don't remember 'cuz I simply nodded OK and let it go.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by IchiRef

Long-time reader, first time poster... I am a sophomore official and i have a couple of question about some situations:

1) a player dives at a loose ball and his momentum causes him to slide a across the floor. This is legal, correct?

2) a player who is lying on their back with the ball may sit up legally, correct?

3) I saw this many times last year and it seems a little fishy to me. A1 is inbounding the ball to A2. A1 uses a bounce pass which, on its way to A2 bounces either out of bounds or on the line (which I believe is the same as out of bounds) violation?

Thanks for your help.

Be careful with #2. It depends on how he tries to sit up. If you're talking about lying flat on your back and just rasing our torso up so that now you are on your butt, I would say legal. But if you are lying on your back and turn your body and get up on your knees, using the ball to push yourself up, no-no! Traveling.

Here's a good question that i had happen in a Nat. tournament this summer. The player dives on the floor and secures the ball. Then sets the ball to the side of him and gets up. One hand on the ball. Is this legal?

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by IchiRef

Long-time reader, first time poster... I am a sophomore official and i have a couple of question about some situations:

1) a player dives at a loose ball and his momentum causes him to slide a across the floor. This is legal, correct?

2) a player who is lying on their back with the ball may sit up legally, correct?

3) I saw this many times last year and it seems a little fishy to me. A1 is inbounding the ball to A2. A1 uses a bounce pass which, on its way to A2 bounces either out of bounds or on the line (which I believe is the same as out of bounds) violation?

Thanks for your help.

1) Legal (4.44.5 B)
2) Legal (4.44.5 B) both plays are covered by the same case book entry
3) Violation (9-2-2)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

Be careful with #2. It depends on how he tries to sit up. If you're talking about lying flat on your back and just rasing our torso up so that now you are on your butt, I would say legal. But if you are lying on your back and turn your body and get up on your knees, using the ball to push yourself up, no-no! Traveling.

Here's a good question that i had happen in a Nat. tournament this summer. The player dives on the floor and secures the ball. Then sets the ball to the side of him and gets up. One hand on the ball. Is this legal?

Most people, I'm guessing, wouldn't define "sitting up" as "getting on one's knees".

Your play is illegal.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Lcubed48

Good question. I would call it, but I know some officials would pass on it. I had a similar situation at camp this summer. A1 while making his throw in barely but clearly steps on the OOB line. There was no press or pressure being applied on the play, but I make the call. The observer asks why. I simply answered that it's a violation. He gave me his take which I don't remember 'cuz I simply nodded OK and let it go.

Why would this be a violation...an in-bounder can step on the line all they want - it's still OOB...if they step OVER the line onto the in-bounds area, then we have a violation, but not just for stepping on the line...

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by Old School

Be careful with #2. It depends on how he tries to sit up. If you're talking about lying flat on your back and just rasing our torso up so that now you are on your butt, I would say legal. But if you are lying on your back and turn your body and get up on your knees, using the ball to push yourself up, no-no! Traveling.

Here's a good question that i had happen in a Nat. tournament this summer. The player dives on the floor and secures the ball. Then sets the ball to the side of him and gets up. One hand on the ball. Is this legal?

If A1 finishes the slide, he may not roll to either side to protect the ball. As you say, if he ends on his back, he may sit up. Once the body begins rotating after the slide has finished, the traveling violation occurs.

To answer your question, violation per 4.44.5 B. That case expounds on a lot of things.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have called it and will call it again.

Peace

I"ll call it if I see it, but I'm usually looking for contact on the floor, or thinking about the count, or checking the clock, or watching that sub that just walked to the table to be sure she stays there, or looking at the coach to see if he wants a TO or.... or.... or....

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Lcubed48

Good question. I would call it, but I know some officials would pass on it. I had a similar situation at camp this summer. A1 while making his throw in barely but clearly steps on the OOB line. There was no press or pressure being applied on the play, but I make the call. The observer asks why. I simply answered that it's a violation. He gave me his take which I don't remember 'cuz I simply nodded OK and let it go.

Okay, here's the laymen version of the rule and what I know about it. The OOB line closest to the player standing OOB, is OOB. IOW'S, the inbounder can place his foot on the outside part of this boundary line (farest from the court) while inbounding and it not be a violation, assuming the OOB line is 2 inches wide. Reason, he's still OOB. The OOB line is OOB. Now if his foot touches the edge of the court, across the OOB line, that is a violation. However, I always thought the ball must be passed directly onto the court, no acceptions. If you throw the ball off the boundary line, violation.