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Old Sun Aug 26, 2007, 09:02pm
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Would you / Do you carry a gun to games?

I was wondering how many fellow officials carry handguns to games. Here in Arizona it is illegal to carry at a school even with a CCW. However all of the police officers that officiate here that I know, carry all the time (they are exempt and it is legal for them to posses a firearm at a school). They leave their gun in their bag in the locker room. It seems to me that I would not leave my gun in my bag unless it was in a locker with a lock on it.

So if you own a gun:

Do you carry to games? Why or why not?

Where do you leave your weapon?

If it is currently illegal to carry at a school, would you carry if it was legal?

If you don't have a gun, would you carry to games if you had one?

If we could keep this to an officiating discussion and not a political discussion, that would be great. Thanks for your input.
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Old Sun Aug 26, 2007, 09:08pm
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Here's the thing. I don't own a weapon. I probably will own one in the future, but don't intend to ever take one to a game.
If I were to become a police officer, that might change. I can't imagine leaving it in the locker room, but that's not my decision to make for other people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_REF
If we could keep this to an officiating discussion and not a political discussion, that would be great. Thanks for your input.
Good luck with that. Funny thing about this place, topics rarely stay on topic. When the original poster attempts to limit the scope of responses, well, that's when all he!! tends to break loose.
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Old Sun Aug 26, 2007, 09:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Here's the thing. I don't own a weapon. I probably will own one in the future, but don't intend to ever take one to a game.
If I were to become a police officer, that might change. I can't imagine leaving it in the locker room, but that's not my decision to make for other people.
Why would you never bring one to a game? I'm not sure if legally I could here, I would either, just wanted to hear your rational. I would never leave it in a locker room, unless it was in a locker and I brought the lock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Good luck with that. Funny thing about this place, topics rarely stay on topic. When the original poster attempts to limit the scope of responses, well, that's when all he!! tends to break loose.
This can be a pretty touchy subject. I just don't want it to turn into GUNS ARE BAD and YOU'RE BAD FOR HAVING ONE! I'm pretty much expecting all heck to break loose, just figure'd I'd try.
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Old Sun Aug 26, 2007, 09:41pm
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All I will say to you is you better be careful. Carrying a gun has all kinds of regulations with it that can sometimes vary by jurisdiction. I know cops that cannot bring guns to certain areas (especially if they are not on duty). I do not own a gun. If I did own a gun not sure I would ever bring it to school where I was working a game. Just this Friday I was told a story about an officer working a game and he brought his gun to school. Then the gun along with other things was stolen. He got in a little bit of trouble with that one. I am sure the each state has different laws and that can change many things. I think more things can go wrong than can go right.

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Old Sun Aug 26, 2007, 10:49pm
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Texas won't allow you to carry IN a school (parking lots OK, as long as it stays in the vehicle) and they won't allow carry at a sporting event, pro or amateur.

If you are worried about your own security, you need to either 1) make sure sufficient security is there; 2) hire your own security; or 3) not accept the assignment. No game is worth a breach of my personal security. I have a couple of contacts that are Texas peace officers and would probably go to a game with me if I needed them. I hope it doesn't come to that, as I will then seriously consider quitting.
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Old Sun Aug 26, 2007, 10:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
All I will say to you is you better be careful. Carrying a gun has all kinds of regulations with it that can sometimes vary by jurisdiction. I know cops that cannot bring guns to certain areas (especially if they are not on duty). I do not own a gun. If I did own a gun not sure I would ever bring it to school where I was working a game. Just this Friday I was told a story about an officer working a game and he brought his gun to school. Then the gun along with other things was stolen. He got in a little bit of trouble with that one. I am sure the each state has different laws and that can change many things. I think more things can go wrong than can go right.

Peace
JR knowing the laws is the fourth step of responsible gun ownership. The first three are all Safety First! In Arizona it's a moot point, because as like Texas, you may have a weapon in the car in the parking lot, but not on campus. Getting anything stolen would be awful, but if you were a police officer and it was related to that, it seems like it would be 100x worse.
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Old Sun Aug 26, 2007, 10:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
Texas won't allow you to carry IN a school (parking lots OK, as long as it stays in the vehicle) and they won't allow carry at a sporting event, pro or amateur.

If you are worried about your own security, you need to either 1) make sure sufficient security is there; 2) hire your own security; or 3) not accept the assignment. No game is worth a breach of my personal security. I have a couple of contacts that are Texas peace officers and would probably go to a game with me if I needed them. I hope it doesn't come to that, as I will then seriously consider quitting.
Same laws in AZ. Although if you have a CCW, you may be able to carry to sporting events, that's something I need to check.

I would never accept an assignment where I felt I needed a gun with me for my own safety. 99% of all varsity games here have at least 2 uniformed officers at the gym, and I've seen very few issues here (thank god).
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Old Sun Aug 26, 2007, 11:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_REF
Same laws in AZ. Although if you have a CCW, you may be able to carry to sporting events, that's something I need to check.

I would never accept an assignment where I felt I needed a gun with me for my own safety. 99% of all varsity games here have at least 2 uniformed officers at the gym, and I've seen very few issues here (thank god).
Then why carry a gun?

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 27, 2007, 12:52am
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I'm a Calif. LEO. I could take my firearm with me to the gym if I wanted to and leave it in a locked locker while I am officiating, but I can't think of any reasonable/responsible reason that I should, so I don't. I rely upon the on-site security for safety issues. I think that if I ever get to the point where I feel that I have to be armed before I feel safe leaving a game ... well, that's probably about the time I hang up my whistle. Granted, to date I've only worked HS volleyball, but I can't imagine my attitude changing when I start HS basketball this year or the next.

Even as a spectator arriving at at game immediately after work, I can only think of a handful of times over the past 15 or so years that I went into a gym armed. It seems unnecessary, and the likelihood of needing to use it is slim; combine that with the danger of being in a crowded gym, kids everywhere, etc. it's a potential bad situation that I would rather just avoid.

There are some jurisdictions that require their LEOs to carry off duty as long as they are not drinking, some departments "encourage" their officers to carry off duty, I work for an agency that simply give me the option; and I typically choose not to. I'd rather be a good witness than a dead off duty cop. With that said, there are more that a couple people in a Salt Lake City mall on 2/12/2007 that owe their lives to an off duty Ogden police officer who was carrying his firearm and engaged a gunman who was shooting randomly at shoppers in the mall.

The famous crime writer Joseph Wambaugh wrote that the off duty handgun, often the very first purchase for a rookie police officer, is in all likelihood the one item that will surely get him/her into trouble faster than anything else.
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Old Mon Aug 27, 2007, 07:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_REF
Why would you never bring one to a game?
Why would you ever bring one to a game?!?!?!

If your personal safety is at that big a risk, then you probably shouldn't even bother going to the venue. If you don't need it for security, then you don't need it.
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Old Mon Aug 27, 2007, 07:50am
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Nothing in the ethics of officiating permits killing people. What a ridiculous thread.

It takes some cajones (or lack of intelligence) to toss a political hot potato and then invite posters not to share their political views.
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Last edited by bob jenkins; Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 09:44am.
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Old Mon Aug 27, 2007, 07:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
Nothing in the ethics of officiating permits killing people. What a ridiculous thread.

It takes some cajones (or lack of intelligence) to toss a political hot potato and then invite posters not to share their political views.
As long as we focus on "how to deal with the laws that exist" (that is, "if allowed by the laws in the area where we work, and if you own a gun, should you take it to your game?") and not on what the law should be ("everyone should have one" "no on should have one"), then it's a valid question.

Personally, I think the stenographer mis-quoted the framers of the constitution -- they were talking about the right to wear t-shirts.
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Old Mon Aug 27, 2007, 08:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
As long as we focus on "how to deal with the laws that exist" (that is, "if allowed by the laws in the area where we work, and if you own a gun, should you take it to your game?") and not on what the law should be ("everyone should have one" "no on should have one"), then it's a valid question.
Couldn't have set it better myself. Thanks.
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Old Mon Aug 27, 2007, 08:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_REF
Why would you never bring one to a game? I'm not sure if legally I could here, I would either, just wanted to hear your rational. I would never leave it in a locker room, unless it was in a locker and I brought the lock.
The risk here is pretty high, getting the weapon stolen. Unless your own security is at risk (which we all seem to agree isn't worth the money), there doesn't seem to be a valid reason worth the risk of getting it stolen. Even if I was a cop, and felt compelled to bring my weapon to the site, I'd most likely leave it in the car and do what I can to ensure the vehicle is as secure as possible. Possibly (this is just a thought), it could be checked with the on-duty police officers who are on site.

As the scrappy one kinda sorta states in post #10, it's not a question of "why not bring it" even if it's allowed. To me, it's a question of, "why bring it." I can't think of a compelling reason.

edited to give credit since it was all but begged for
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Last edited by Adam; Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 10:16am.
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Old Mon Aug 27, 2007, 09:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
It's not a question of "why not bring it" even if it's allowed. To me, it's a question of, "why bring it."
I agree with this. In fact, it sounds a little familiar. Oh yeah, post #10 in this thread: "Why would you ever bring one to a game?!?!?!"

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