Donaghy pleads guilty

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think you're probably right. Now, what are the odds the casinos are going to turn their tapes over?

Which brings up......
- the NBA put it's All-Star game in Vegas(and you how that turned out).
- the NBA ran it's summer league in Vegas.
- the NBA is basing it's current Olympic Team training camp in Vegas this summer.
- Stern has been quoted as advocating an NBA franchise for Vegas.

The NBA deserves all of the bad publicity about gambling that it gets. Stoopid monkeys!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not at all. Quite the opposite in fact. Casinos are private organizations that, I'd be willing to guess, want to protect their customers' privacy for good business reasons. I doubt the casinos will want to release these tapes unless they're compelled to. Since the allegations don't involve any illegal activity, there won't likely be a government agency involved, so the NBA won't be able to compel the casinos to hand over the tapes.

They certainly can't compel production of the tapes, but they can certainly ask. I would think that Vegas would be more than willing to help in any investigation of this sort - they want games fixed about as much as Stern does.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

What I'm saying is there's really little the union or anyone can do to stop them from starting an investigation, which might include some poor SOB looking through hours and hours of casino tape. What comes of that investigation (fines, firing, whatever) is - or should be - stated in the agreement.

Thank you. This is what I was trying to say.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I would think that Vegas would be more than willing to help in any investigation of this sort - they want games fixed about as much as Stern does.

Great point!!! I hadn't even thought of that, but I'm sure you're right about that.

[Mark Padgett]

I think there's one point on which we can all agree: all of our comments so far are conjecture. We don't really know what the NBA bargaining agreement contains, what Tim really is going to reveal and how anyone in the gambling industry will actually react.

Having said that, let me add to the conjecture. Tim will say a few refs gambled from time to time, but not on games. Stern will strike a deal with those refs that if they admit it, he will designate it "bad judgment" and they'll get a slap on the wrist if they promise not to do it again. Stern will continue to push Vegas as an NBA location and the whole thing will soon blow over, until Tim's trial. However, at that point, media focus will be on the mob, not on the NBA or Vegas.

My conjecture is based on my knowledge of Vegas - my grandparents lived there (my grandfather worked in the casinos) and I spent many summers there during my teen years plus I lived there for a while - and also my intimate knowledge of The Sopranos.

The fun part will be when mob figures appear on TV with their hats over their faces. I used to see this happen a lot in my old neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago when I was a kid.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not at all. Quite the opposite in fact. Casinos are private organizations that, I'd be willing to guess, want to protect their customers' privacy for good business reasons. I doubt the casinos will want to release these tapes unless they're compelled to. Since the allegations don't involve any illegal activity, there won't likely be a government agency involved, so the NBA won't be able to compel the casinos to hand over the tapes.

Unless you're pretty high up in the casino business we're both just guessing as to what they might or might not be willing to hand over to anyone at any particular time. Certainly you can't stop casino employees from talking to private investigators. No tapes needed at all.

I'm not even sure we agree there's no illegal activity that might be found on the casino tapes related to this case.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Thank you. This is what I was trying to say.

Oh.

Then I take it back.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Unless you're pretty high up in the casino business we're both just guessing as to what they might or might not be willing to hand over to anyone at any particular time. Certainly you can't stop casino employees from talking to private investigators. No tapes needed at all.

I'm not even sure we agree there's no illegal activity that might be found on the casino tapes related to this case.

You're right. I'm guessing. And I'm guessing that casinos rely on a customer base that wants to maintain its privacy. The ability to maintain customer privacy is a big selling point for a lot of companies; banks, country clubs, etc. Maybe, if the NBA asks for a specific and limited period of time, a casino might oblige. But if they just want to mine what would amount to months of tape, I'd be pretty surprised if the casinos were willing to turn over the tapes.

Do you really think casino employees are going to recognize NBA referees? I doubt these guys were in there name dropping or big-timing it.

I'm willing to retract all of this, however, if it turns out he's accusing other officials of fixing games and/or gambling on basketball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Which brings up......
- the NBA put it's All-Star game in Vegas(and you how that turned out).
- the NBA ran it's summer league in Vegas.
- the NBA is basing it's current Olympic Team training camp in Vegas this summer.
- Stern has been quoted as advocating an NBA franchise for Vegas.

The NBA deserves all of the bad publicity about gambling that it gets. Stoopid monkeys!

Agreed.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're right. I'm guessing.

Just wanted to level set.

Do you really think casino employees are going to recognize NBA referees?

Excuse me sir? Do you recognize any of these people? (shows pictures).

Pretty simple, no?

I'm willing to retract all of this, however, if it turns out he's accusing other officials of fixing games and/or gambling on basketball.

I doubt that Stern is sitting by his phone waiting for a full confession.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Just wanted to level set.

Excuse me sir? Do you recognize any of these people? (shows pictures).

Pretty simple, no?

Not really. With the thousands of faces that come through their casinos every day, do you think they'll recognize pictures of someone who may have come through 6 months ago?

They might have better luck if they ask the cocktail waitresses.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not really. With the thousands of faces that come through their casinos every day, do you think they'll recognize pictures of someone who may have come through 6 months ago?

They might have better luck if they ask the cocktail waitresses.

You think dealers don't recognize players?

This is getting silly.

Let's leave it this way...if *I* were in charge of the NBA I would leave no stone unturned to get to the truth on this.

Maybe you're a more trusting soul than I am, who knows.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

You think dealers don't recognize players?

Regulars? Sure. Beyond that, no. If these guys are regulars at any given casino, they deserve what they get.

Let's leave it this way...if *I* were in charge of the NBA I would leave no stone unturned to get to the truth on this.

Maybe you're a more trusting soul than I am, who knows.

Fair enough.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

You think dealers don't recognize players?

As I stated previously, my grandfather worked in the Vegas casinos (Stardust, Sands and Sahara) for many years. I once asked him if he "thought it was cool" when celebrities gambled at his table. He said, "All we see are the chips, young man."

I don't think casino employees are going to recognize refs in the casinos unless they're wearing their jerseys. They see literally thousands of people each shift.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

As I stated previously, my grandfather worked in the Vegas casinos (Stardust, Sands and Sahara) for many years. I once asked him if he "thought it was cool" when celebrities gambled at his table. He said, "All we see are the chips, young man."

I don't think casino employees are going to recognize refs in the casinos unless they're wearing their jerseys. They see literally thousands of people each shift.

Well there you have it. Someone please contact the NBA and tell them they will never beat the truth out of those casino workers and casino management would never cooperate with any investigation. Thanks for settling that one with this conclusive evidence Mark.

Hey...maybe Osama's been hiding at a blackjack table all these years? Sitting next to Jimmy Hoffa and Natalee Holloway?