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Sun Aug 17, 2003, 06:16pm
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Yesterday (Saturday), I was officiating a Jr. High game. Home team (Team A for this situation) is winning 26-0 in the 3rd period with a couple of minutes left.
QB (A1) comes up to me and says, "We are going to take a knee." So (disregarding advice given here), I go to the defense and say, "He's taking a knee, stay off him." Well team A can't get things straigtened out so they take a timeout. They come back out to the playing field directly to the line of scrimmage and I remind the Defense to stay off the QB. You guessed it. QB doesn't take a knee and throws a pass into the endzone to score a 2 point try. I now fully understand that it is not my job to protect the players from being hit and I will never tell the defense to stay off the QB. We will call this a lesson learned. I also recall this kind of thing has been discussed before, but I need a refresher. What would you do? I blew the play dead before the pass was completed so we replayed the down under the I.W. rule because I blew it by telling the Defense NOT to play. To those who said this was a bad idea, I aplogize for not listening. 
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Mike Sears 
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Sun Aug 17, 2003, 07:22pm
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We tell them, "If he takes a knee, don't hit him."
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"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Sun Aug 17, 2003, 08:14pm
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Didn't it seem odd to you that the QB was going to take a knee with a few minutes left in the 3rd quarter, then have to take a timeout to talk about it?
Regardless, I would not inform anyone of the QBs possible intentions on the play, especially the defense. You blow the whistle based on the actual results of the play not what you think will be the results. (Dang... I better turn a light on to see what I'm typing!!!) [Edited by Theisey on Aug 17th, 2003 at 08:23 PM]
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Sun Aug 17, 2003, 09:55pm
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Mike
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Mon Aug 18, 2003, 08:06am
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I'm almost to the point of simply telling the offense to protect themselves because I am not telling the defense that they might take a knee. I'm thinking of arranging a signal for the crew so WE can be aware and be on our whistles quickly when the ball is downed. Do you feel my reaction is a "knee-jerk" reaction to this?
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Mike Sears
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Mon Aug 18, 2003, 08:21am
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Quote:
Quote:
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Mike Sears
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Mon Aug 18, 2003, 09:43am
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Mike,
I commend the league for having teams not running up the score, but if that was the case in this play someone forgot about the sportsmanship part. Maybe Mr head coach should have been hit with an UC flag. Regardless, there are other ways. While we have no such league rule for JV or modified games, I recall where a local PW league allowed the team behind to keep the ball once a point differential was reached. They kept the ball no matter what. The chains were bascially removed from the sidelines, any turnover was killed and the team behind retained possession at the previous spot. I'm not sure when the rule "kicked in" as it might have been at the start of the second half, don't really remember. I think regular play was resumed once the point differential was reduced by 14 points, again, I'm not 100% sure anymore. As far as a crew signal, we have none. When our Ref knows, he kills the play when it's over by rule. The rest of us officiate as we would normally. we get very vocal once we see what has just happened.
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Mon Aug 18, 2003, 09:52am
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What's more unsportsmanlike?
Last year our varsity crew witnessed a team take a knee on a PAT in the second or third quarter (I forget exactly which). They were clearly the better team that night, but upon reflection we felt it was actually a much bigger slap in the face to do that. And, in the end, they ended up not achieving the 40-point differential which would have forced a running clock and ended the whole game that much quicker. They were lucky no one on either team suffered a pointless injury in a game who's outcome had been decided in the first few minutes.
I believe the team should punch in the PAT and then call off the dogs on the next series with lots of substitutions and conservative play calling on both sides of the ball.
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Mon Aug 18, 2003, 10:59am
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1. When a team leads by 21 or more points, they kick off from their own 20 yard line. If lead returns below 21 points, regular rules are used. 2. When a team leads by 24 or more points anytime during the 4th quarter, the clock runs non-stop. If the lead goes below 24, clock returns to regulation clock. 3. Teams are "encouraged" not to run up the score on one another but game officials are not to assess any penalty. That is left up to the league. As far as a crew signal, we have none. When our Ref knows, he kills the play when it's over by rule. The rest of us officiate as we would normally. we get very vocal once we see what has just happened. I'm thinking this will be the way we handle this play from now on.
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Mike Sears
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Mon Aug 18, 2003, 11:44am
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Mike,
Back to the point of how to officiate a potential "I'm going to take a knee" play. If declared by the offense (and I will ask them if it's that type of situation), then I will inform my U that A MAY take a knee on this play. My U will let the defense know on the break of the huddle that A MAY take a knee and if he does, lay off. When A comes to the line, the U stays over the ball until I remind both A & B that IF A takes a knee you'd better lay off or risk a foul. But I also say that if A doesn't take a knee, then we're playing football, and protect yourself. This approach does 2 things. 1) it ensures some level of safety for the players (especially the QB), and 2) it leaves room for the possibility that A may not take a knee. Mike, like you, I've been burned by the team that told me they were going to take a knee and then didn't. And although you can flag it, I prefer to leave a gap in the door for the defense to assume that A may not take a knee and be prepared. Then, I don't have anything to "clean up" should A change their mind. I've had games where A tells me that they're taking a knee and then don't. Believe me, on the way to the next huddle that QB gets an earful and he loses the additional protection that I intended to provide.
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Mon Aug 18, 2003, 02:31pm
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Here's what I do
I do not give any indication to the defense that the other team is taking a knee. I do not give any assurance to the offense that I will protect them more than normal. I remind the defense that the play ends on my whistle. If I were to do otherwise then I would be controlling the game instead of officiating it.
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Mon Aug 18, 2003, 03:39pm
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If it is the end of a 'chippy' close game and A says they will be taking a knee, I, too, tell the defense that if the QB takes a knee, not to hit him. To ensure that they do, I stand in a lot closer to the snap, as does the U. This ensures that any extracuricular crap between lineman who may have gotten cranky is kept to a minimum.
I understand that fumbled snap changes everything there, but the obligation to safety in that situation trumps A's chance to try and score when the game has been decided.
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Mon Aug 18, 2003, 05:34pm
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Maybe I've led a "charmed life"---
but in my 34 years of football officiating, I've never had a team say they were going to "take a knee" and not do it. It has only happened at the end of a game. All officials pinch in to try to keep any end of game frustration from getting loose. I've never had any real problems in those situations. (btw--I am an Umpire)
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