Stick 'em or not?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

You did a good thing by verbally starting your count to give him fair warning. IMHO your penalty/punishment should have been NOT granting the T.O. and awarding the ball to Team B. A turnover means that Team B still has to inbound, shoot, and score. Whacking the kid w/ a T is the "double whammy" - Team B shoots FT's to tie/go ahead AND gives Team B possession of the ball.

Save yourself the game changing problem...either don't grant the T.O.....or....grant the T.O. and get over your ego problem and pass on the T.

I'm sure 95% of others in here will say: "whack 'em".....

Are you serious? You're going to deliberately ignore a rule just to get back at a player? Un-freaking-believable. That concept is right out of the Old School book of rec league officiating.

We're officials. We don't play games with the rules to make a point. Calling a "T" on this play is a judgment call. Calling a violation that ISN'T a violation just to get back at a player is never the way to go. That's just wrong. No wonder our damn integrity gets questioned if some officials are out there pulling this kinda crap.

Terrible, terrible advice imo. I'm sure that 95% of the experienced officials on this forum will agree with me too.

[Adam]

Whack him. I don't do verbal counts on this, regardless. I might make my visual count a little exaggerated, but it's not going to be audible.

The T becomes easy and simple when he adds "what's your problem." I would have answered him differently after the game, though. That comment might lead to other problems if your assigner isn't so understanding. Then again, it's wreck league; thus making the T easier and the comment more acceptable. Well done.

Oh, and yes, I agree with JR that jeffpea's advice is, well, not optimal.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Whack him. I don't do verbal counts on this, regardless. I might make my visual count a little exaggerated, but it's not going to be audible.

The T becomes easy and simple when he adds "what's your problem." I would have answered him differently after the game, though. That comment might lead to other problems if your assigner isn't so understanding. Then again, it's wreck league; thus making the T easier and the comment more acceptable. Well done.

Oh, and yes, I agree with JR that jeffpea's advice is, well, not optimal.

I agree on all points. Only thing I'd really stay away from would have been the post game reply to the player - best not to give them anything at all to work with, just walk away.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Are you serious? You're going to deliberately ignore a rule just to get back at a player? Un-freaking-believable. That concept is right out of the Old School book of rec league officiating.

We're officials. We don't play games with the rules to make a point. Calling a "T" on this play is a judgment call. Calling a violation that ISN'T a violation just to get back at a player is never the way to go. That's just wrong. No wonder our damn integrity gets questioned if some officials are out there pulling this kinda crap.

Terrible, terrible advice imo. I'm sure that 95% of the experienced officials on this forum will agree with me too.

Yeah - but how do you really feel?

[Mountaineer]

It was the second part of the comment that would have drawn the T from me. Especially since he turned and yelled at me and everyone heard it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Yeah - but how do you really feel?

It was kind of weird advice anyway. The player didn't say anything until after the timeout request was granted. How could you possibly go back at that time and call a retroactive 5-second violation instead? Now, if the player said it during the count, it might be different. But not different enough to justify making up your own rules.

Imo you just follow the rules that you have. You have a legitimate and legal TO request. There's no reason not to grant it. After that, any response to the player yakking is predicated by the tolerance level of the official. You can ignore it, warn the player or call the "T"-- your choice. If you want to penalize the player, fine, then go ahead and do so. Do it correctly by the rules though. There's no need to play games.

JMHO....

[Texas Aggie]

shouts "You can't start counting until we pick up the ball, what's your problem"?

I (loudly) state, "my problem is that's not true. The count starts when its at your disposal. Know the rule before complaining next time."

I had a jr. high kid last year in football keep yelling "the ground can't cause a fumble" on a ruled fumble. I don't recall whether he was still on the field for his team's (now defensive) huddle, or was walking off, but I loudly told him (and the coach) that the ground has nothing to do with it. If he isn't ruled down, he CAN fumble. Didn't hear a word from either one of them.