Stick 'em or not?

I'm the lead with under 20 seconds remaining in a win or go home ballgame, Team B scores to cut Team A's lead to 1.
Team A doesn't attempt to pick up the ball (at their dispossal) for a throw-in (clock is still running). I thought that I was being very generous in giving a verbal "one" to make Team A aware that I'm indeed counting & not having the stalling tactics.
A1 requests & is granted a time out (4.5 on my count). Instead of being thankful for the verbal "one" count, A1 (on his way to the bench) turns around and shouts "You can't start counting until we pick up the ball, what's your problem"?

Now, I've trained myself to have selective hearing & have learned to ignore stupid comments. But wait a minute... is this guy really yelling at ME for helping him twice (could've easily counted silently & visually also could've ignored the time-out & went with 5 seconds).

I know if I stick him, Team B could make up to 6 points & Team A loses the ballgame on a stupid technical foul.




Besides NOT giving the verbal "one" count, what would you all have done?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I'm the lead with under 20 seconds remaining in a win or go home ballgame, Team B scores to cut Team A's lead to 1.
Team A doesn't attempt to pick up the ball (at their dispossal) for a throw-in (clock is still running). I thought that I was being very generous in giving a verbal "one" to make Team A aware that I'm indeed counting & not having the stalling tactics.
A1 requests & is granted a time out (4.5 on my count). Instead of being thankful for the verbal "one" count, A1 (on his way to the bench) turns around and shouts "You can't start counting until we pick up the ball, what's your problem"?

Now, I've trained myself to have selective hearing & have learned to ignore stupid comments. But wait a minute... is this guy really yelling at ME for helping him twice (could've easily counted silently & visually also could've ignored the time-out & went with 5 seconds).

I know if I stick him, Team B could make up to 6 points & Team A loses the ballgame on a stupid technical foul.




Besides NOT giving the verbal "one" count, what would you all have done?

This is what you get for being nice. At least, that's what some folks will tell you. You just administer the game as you normally do, and don't go out of your way to be "nice". You can't. And, yes, I'd stick him -- for being a complete idiot. If they lose because of the T, the coach better be yelling at him, not you!!

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I'm the lead with under 20 seconds remaining in a win or go home ballgame, Team B scores to cut Team A's lead to 1.
Team A doesn't attempt to pick up the ball (at their dispossal) for a throw-in (clock is still running). I thought that I was being very generous in giving a verbal "one" to make Team A aware that I'm indeed counting & not having the stalling tactics.
A1 requests & is granted a time out (4.5 on my count). Instead of being thankful for the verbal "one" count, A1 (on his way to the bench) turns around and shouts "You can't start counting until we pick up the ball, what's your problem"?

Now, I've trained myself to have selective hearing & have learned to ignore stupid comments. But wait a minute... is this guy really yelling at ME for helping him twice (could've easily counted silently & visually also could've ignored the time-out & went with 5 seconds).

I know if I stick him, Team B could make up to 6 points & Team A loses the ballgame on a stupid technical foul.




Besides NOT giving the verbal "one" count, what would you all have done?

Stick him.

[Mark Padgett]

If all he said was the first part - let it go, but the "what's your problem" part is a T in my book.

BTW - my book contains words of only one letter - "T".

[jeffpea]

Giving him a T, while a natural emotional response, would not be the best thing to do here in this situation. Yes, he was being a smart a$$. Yes, he should be thankful for your "help". Yes, he deserves a smack across the face. But, no profanity and a short comment that may have only been heard by you OR at least looks very minor on film, does not warrant a T.

You did a good thing by verbally starting your count to give him fair warning. IMHO your penalty/punishment should have been NOT granting the T.O. and awarding the ball to Team B. A turnover means that Team B still has to inbound, shoot, and score. Whacking the kid w/ a T is the "double whammy" - Team B shoots FT's to tie/go ahead AND gives Team B possession of the ball.

Save yourself the game changing problem...either don't grant the T.O.....or....grant the T.O. and get over your ego problem and pass on the T.

I'm sure 95% of others in here will say: "whack 'em".....

Appreciate the touchback all, and yes ma'am I'm done with being "nice". It truly doesn't pay!!

So, yep I stuck him & Team B hit the FTs for the T, up by 1 then got fouled immediately near the division line & made 2 more to win the game by 3 before Team A could get the desperation shot attempt off.

After the game nincompoop ran up and asked me if the team that I wanted to win had won?
I told him YES they sure did now go home

Of course the assignor (who received an email the next morning) told him that if I really wanted the other team to win... "why would he had given you a verbal "one" count when a visual is all that is required"?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Appreciate the touchback all, and yes ma'am I'm done with being "nice". It truly doesn't pay!!

So, yep I stuck him & Team B hit the FTs for the T, up by 1 then got fouled immediately near the division line & made 2 more to win the game by 3 before Team A could get the desperation shot attempt off.

After the game nincompoop ran up and asked me if the team that I wanted to win had won?
I told him YES they sure did now go home

Of course the assignor (who received an email the next morning) told him that if I really wanted the other team to win... "why would he had given you a verbal "one" count when a visual is all that is required"?

It's good that the assignor has your back. But who was the assignor talking to the player? That's NOT good. He should ONLY talk to coaches.

[Odd Duck]

I would not have whacked him for the comment. Now, if he is the player that returns for the throw-in and nobody is within ear shot I may say "I cut you some slack you twice...the audible "one" and not sticking you with a tech for the comment as you walked to the bench. You won't be that lucky again."

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

But, no profanity and a short comment that may have only been heard by you OR at least looks very minor on film, does not warrant a T.

But, what if the player turns around and shouts his comments while walking to the bench?

Originally Posted by jeffpea

Giving him a T, while a natural emotional response, would not be the best thing to do here in this situation. Yes, he was being a smart a$$. Yes, he should be thankful for your "help". Yes, he deserves a smack across the face. But, no profanity and a short comment that may have only been heard by you OR at least looks very minor on film, does not warrant a T.

You did a good thing by verbally starting your count to give him fair warning. IMHO your penalty/punishment should have been NOT granting the T.O. and awarding the ball to Team B. A turnover means that Team B still has to inbound, shoot, and score. Whacking the kid w/ a T is the "double whammy" - Team B shoots FT's to tie/go ahead AND gives Team B possession of the ball.

Save yourself the game changing problem...either don't grant the T.O.....or....grant the T.O. and get over your ego problem and pass on the T.

I'm sure 95% of others in here will say: "whack 'em".....

Not sure if you read my OP correctly, but A1 turns around & shouts everyone heard it & looked directly at me like "oooooohhhhhh he told you".
I don't know about you but NOBODY shouts at me on my wood.

I can't understand how you think the verbal was a good thing?? I'll never ever do that again... what if the other team knew the rules & said I was cheating by giving the verbal???

Who said they were kids?

And why not grant a TO when my arm didn't click on 5?

Ego? You lost me, but thanks for chiming in.

Originally Posted by rainmaker

It's good that the assignor has your back. But who was the assignor talking to the player? That's NOT good. He should ONLY talk to coaches.

No coaches, summer league for "college players/grads"

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Not sure if you read my OP correctly, but A1 turns around & shouts everyone heard it & looked directly at me

This probably falls under "showing up the ref". I definitely would not T just for what was said. HTBT for the shouting, but in that case, the T is understandable.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

No coaches, summer league for "college players/grads"

Why didn't you say so? Whack 'im and walk away laughing.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I think this is a good T at any level, simply for the "what's your problem" line at the end. If he leaves that off, he's probably going to get a pass, and maybe even a bried explanation. But once he "calls me out," you can bet I'm going to whack him.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

You did a good thing by verbally starting your count to give him fair warning. IMHO your penalty/punishment should have been NOT granting the T.O. and awarding the ball to Team B. A turnover means that Team B still has to inbound, shoot, and score. Whacking the kid w/ a T is the "double whammy" - Team B shoots FT's to tie/go ahead AND gives Team B possession of the ball.

Save yourself the game changing problem...either don't grant the T.O.....or....grant the T.O. and get over your ego problem and pass on the T.

I'm sure 95% of others in here will say: "whack 'em".....

Are you serious? You're going to deliberately ignore a rule just to get back at a player? Un-freaking-believable. That concept is right out of the Old School book of rec league officiating.

We're officials. We don't play games with the rules to make a point. Calling a "T" on this play is a judgment call. Calling a violation that ISN'T a violation just to get back at a player is never the way to go. That's just wrong. No wonder our damn integrity gets questioned if some officials are out there pulling this kinda crap.

Terrible, terrible advice imo. I'm sure that 95% of the experienced officials on this forum will agree with me too.