Stick 'em or not?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Yeah - but how do you really feel?

It was kind of weird advice anyway. The player didn't say anything until after the timeout request was granted. How could you possibly go back at that time and call a retroactive 5-second violation instead? Now, if the player said it during the count, it might be different. But not different enough to justify making up your own rules.

Imo you just follow the rules that you have. You have a legitimate and legal TO request. There's no reason not to grant it. After that, any response to the player yakking is predicated by the tolerance level of the official. You can ignore it, warn the player or call the "T"-- your choice. If you want to penalize the player, fine, then go ahead and do so. Do it correctly by the rules though. There's no need to play games.

JMHO....

[Texas Aggie]

shouts "You can't start counting until we pick up the ball, what's your problem"?

I (loudly) state, "my problem is that's not true. The count starts when its at your disposal. Know the rule before complaining next time."

I had a jr. high kid last year in football keep yelling "the ground can't cause a fumble" on a ruled fumble. I don't recall whether he was still on the field for his team's (now defensive) huddle, or was walking off, but I loudly told him (and the coach) that the ground has nothing to do with it. If he isn't ruled down, he CAN fumble. Didn't hear a word from either one of them.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I'm the lead with under 20 seconds remaining in a win or go home ballgame, Team B scores to cut Team A's lead to 1.
Team A doesn't attempt to pick up the ball (at their dispossal) for a throw-in (clock is still running). I thought that I was being very generous in giving a verbal "one" to make Team A aware that I'm indeed counting & not having the stalling tactics.
A1 requests & is granted a time out (4.5 on my count). Instead of being thankful for the verbal "one" count, A1 (on his way to the bench) turns around and shouts "You can't start counting until we pick up the ball, what's your problem"?

Now, I've trained myself to have selective hearing & have learned to ignore stupid comments. But wait a minute... is this guy really yelling at ME for helping him twice (could've easily counted silently & visually also could've ignored the time-out & went with 5 seconds).

I know if I stick him, Team B could make up to 6 points & Team A loses the ballgame on a stupid technical foul.




Besides NOT giving the verbal "one" count, what would you all have done?

Stick him.

[Mark Padgett]

If all he said was the first part - let it go, but the "what's your problem" part is a T in my book.

BTW - my book contains words of only one letter - "T".

Appreciate the touchback all, and yes ma'am I'm done with being "nice". It truly doesn't pay!!

So, yep I stuck him & Team B hit the FTs for the T, up by 1 then got fouled immediately near the division line & made 2 more to win the game by 3 before Team A could get the desperation shot attempt off.

After the game nincompoop ran up and asked me if the team that I wanted to win had won?
I told him YES they sure did now go home

Of course the assignor (who received an email the next morning) told him that if I really wanted the other team to win... "why would he had given you a verbal "one" count when a visual is all that is required"?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Appreciate the touchback all, and yes ma'am I'm done with being "nice". It truly doesn't pay!!

So, yep I stuck him & Team B hit the FTs for the T, up by 1 then got fouled immediately near the division line & made 2 more to win the game by 3 before Team A could get the desperation shot attempt off.

After the game nincompoop ran up and asked me if the team that I wanted to win had won?
I told him YES they sure did now go home

Of course the assignor (who received an email the next morning) told him that if I really wanted the other team to win... "why would he had given you a verbal "one" count when a visual is all that is required"?

It's good that the assignor has your back. But who was the assignor talking to the player? That's NOT good. He should ONLY talk to coaches.

Originally Posted by rainmaker

It's good that the assignor has your back. But who was the assignor talking to the player? That's NOT good. He should ONLY talk to coaches.

No coaches, summer league for "college players/grads"

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

After the game nincompoop ran up and asked me if the team that I wanted to win had won?
I told him YES they sure did now go home

If there were any games left for this team, I'd have T'd him up again and ejected him. If he wants to be a moron, let him pay the price and sit out a game or two.

[Odd Duck]

I would not have whacked him for the comment. Now, if he is the player that returns for the throw-in and nobody is within ear shot I may say "I cut you some slack you twice...the audible "one" and not sticking you with a tech for the comment as you walked to the bench. You won't be that lucky again."

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I'm the lead with under 20 seconds remaining in a win or go home ballgame, Team B scores to cut Team A's lead to 1.
Team A doesn't attempt to pick up the ball (at their dispossal) for a throw-in (clock is still running). I thought that I was being very generous in giving a verbal "one" to make Team A aware that I'm indeed counting & not having the stalling tactics.
A1 requests & is granted a time out (4.5 on my count). Instead of being thankful for the verbal "one" count, A1 (on his way to the bench) turns around and shouts "You can't start counting until we pick up the ball, what's your problem"?

Now, I've trained myself to have selective hearing & have learned to ignore stupid comments. But wait a minute... is this guy really yelling at ME for helping him twice (could've easily counted silently & visually also could've ignored the time-out & went with 5 seconds).

I know if I stick him, Team B could make up to 6 points & Team A loses the ballgame on a stupid technical foul.

Besides NOT giving the verbal "one" count, what would you all have done?

A1 shouted this at you? As in a whole bunch of others heard it too? Whack! Easy call.

I have no problem with "ONE....". The only other thing you can do is say, "I'm still counting..." but only after you start to count.

[Brad]

This is a summer league, so he's definitely getting whacked!!

Regular season / playoff game I might use discretion because the reality is that the focus of the end of the game is now going to be on us. It would definitely be addressed one way or another though.

[The Canuck]

If they're ignoring the ball after a made basket, TWEET with a delay of game warning. "I've got a delay of game warning against Team A. Let's keep it moving boys, next time will be a T." If A players are within earshot, in a quieter voice, "I don't want to have to call a T this late in a close game."

Now we've stopped the game and will resume where we left off... a throw-in for team A behind the end line, administered by the officials, and therefore, with a count. Seems to me that's a preventative way of dealing with it, and personally I try to be preventative.

You shout at a ref, you get stuck. Doesn't matter who was right or wrong or what the ref did to trigger it. The great thing about our profession is that we have a whistle, and as such, even if we're wrong, we're right.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by The Canuck

!) If they're ignoring the ball after a made basket, TWEET with a delay of game warning. "I've got a delay of game warning against Team A.

2) Now we've stopped the game and will resume where we left off... a throw-in for team A behind the end line, administered by the officials, and therefore, with a count. Seems to me that's a preventative way of dealing with it, and personally I try to be preventative.

1) Can you cite a rule, NFHS or NCAA, that will allow you to do that?

2) If they're ignoring the ball after a made basket, the current rules already authorize you to start a count. Iow, the rules that we already have direct us on how to handle the situation.

It's always a good idea to just follow the rules as written without making up new ones.

Of course, if you answered using FIBA rules, please ignore the above. You should always specify which ruleset that you're using to answer. We usually assume that FED or NCAA rules are being used.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by The Canuck

If they're ignoring the ball after a made basket, TWEET with a delay of game warning. "I've got a delay of game warning against Team A. Let's keep it moving boys, next time will be a T." If A players are within earshot, in a quieter voice, "I don't want to have to call a T this late in a close game."

Now we've stopped the game and will resume where we left off... a throw-in for team A behind the end line, administered by the officials, and therefore, with a count. Seems to me that's a preventative way of dealing with it, and personally I try to be preventative.

Can you tell me how this is preventative? You're preventing, what, a 5 second violation? With a delay of game warning that isn't in the rule book? Good grief, there's no need to make stuff up here.

Originally Posted by The Canuck

You shout at a ref, you get stuck. Doesn't matter who was right or wrong or what the ref did to trigger it. The great thing about our profession is that we have a whistle, and as such, even if we're wrong, we're right.

I disagree, the great thing about our profession is when some of us start making rules up, there's generally someone to hold us accountable.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I disagree, the great thing about our profession is when some of us start making rules up, there's generally someone to hold us accountable.

Old School?