What is the correct procedure?

[dave30]

Team A inbounds the ball at the baseline (backcourt). Player dribbles to midcourt. I notice that the clock never started. (actually my partner noticed, the clock was behind me) I take the ball back to the baseline and Team A throws the ball in again. Only this time, Team B decides to press. Team B steals the ball and scores. The coach argues that I should have taken some time off the clock and gave them the ball at midcourt since it wasn't their fault that the clock didn't start. He had a point. I told him I honestly didn't know the correct procedure, but did what I thought was correct. Was I wrong?

[Camron Rust]

The coach was correct.

Team A advanced the ball to midcourt and should get the ball back at that spot no matter what else is done. That was the location of the ball when it became dead to address the clock issue.

Since the player had just dribbled to midcourt, you would have had your backcourt count to use for correcting the clock....at least as much as your backcourt count should come off the clock, perhaps more if you had additional counts after crossing the midcourt line.

[Mark Dexter]

You had a 10 second backcourt count going, right?

If so, subtract that from what's showing on the game clock and go with a throw-in at mid-court.

If you didn't have a 10 second count, the throw-in is still from mid-court (nearest point to where the ball was when you blew the whistle), but unless you have definite knowledge, you leave the clock where it was. Since the ball was touched inbounds, you're not going to go all the way back to the baseline (i.e., no do-overs).

[legend]

You should know how much time would have run off the clock by your back court 10 sec. count, and yes the ball should have been taken out at mid-court or the closest point to where the ball was whistled dead.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by dave30

Team A inbounds the ball at the baseline (backcourt). Player dribbles to midcourt. I notice that the clock never started. I take the ball back to the baseline and Team A throws the ball in again. Only this time, Team B decides to press. Team B steals the ball and scores. The coach argues that I should have taken some time off the clock and gave them the ball at midcourt since it wasn't their fault that the clock didn't start. He had a point. I told him I honestly didn't know the correct procedure, but did what I thought was correct. Was I wrong?

You could have used your 10-second backcourt count as "definite knowledge" in this situation. Blow the whistle as soon as you know the clock didn't start. Take off the number of seconds used according to your backcourt count at the time of your whistle. Give the team with the ball a throw-in at the spot closest to where the ball was when the whistle blew. Your butt is covered under NFHS rule 5-10.

If you don't blow your whistle until the ball is in the front court though, you can't reset the clock unless you had accurate knowledge somehow of how much time was used until you blew your whistle--example-> backcourt count followed by an immediate 5-second closely guarded count. If you don't have accurate knowledge, then you would have to go back to the original throw-in spot on the endline without taking any time off the clock.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

If you didn't have a 10 second count, the throw-in is still from mid-court (nearest point to where the ball was when you blew the whistle), but unless you have definite knowledge, you leave the clock where it was. Since the ball was touched inbounds, you're not going to go all the way back to the baseline (i.e., no do-overs).

Rule to back that up?

[dave30]

I didn't have definite knowledge. My backcourt count was at 4 (I think, can't remember off the top of my head) when the player crossed midcourt. Then she dribbled into the frontcourt and was not guarded closely. My co-official blew the whistle after he noticed the clock, but the ball had been in the frontcourt for 3 or 4 seconds. It was one of those gyms where we only had one clock and it was behind me.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Team A advanced the ball to midcourt and should get the ball back at that spot no matter what else is done. That was the location of the ball when it became dead to address the clock issue.

Here we go again....

I disagree completely. There is no rules backing for your statement above. Giving the offensive team half-court with no time taken off makes no sense at all- to me.However, there also is no rules backing for my take that it simply a do-over if there is no accurate count.

This play is not covered definitively under NFHS rules.

Maybe we can agree to disagree and cut off the usual 15-page argument about it. Anybody interested can just use the search function to find one of the many old arguments that we've had on this exact same play, if they're so inclined. We've certainly discussed this one to death.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Rule to back that up?

7-5-4.

Ball became live when it was touched inbounds (whether the clock started or not), A had control (team and player) and the ball became dead when the official sounded his whistle.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Here we go again....

I disagree completely. There is no rules backing for your statement above. Giving the offensive team half-court with no time taken off makes no sense at all- to me.However, there also is no rules backing for my take that it simply a do-over if there is no accurate count.

This play is not covered definitively under NFHS rules.

Maybe we can agree to disagree and cut off the usual 15-page argument about it. Anybody interested can just use the search function to find one of the many old arguments that we've had on this exact same play, if they're so inclined. We've certainly discussed this one to death.

I'll sign that truce.

[blindzebra]

There isn't a rule covering either, and whichever way you rule, disadvantages one team...so it's 2-3 and neither is wrong.

[Nevadaref]

Put me down on Dexter's side in this one, but I'm certainly not going to get into another with JR.

[dave30]

I'm still confused !

If it happens again in the future. Should I :


A. Take the ball back to the original throw-in spot and not worry if the defense presses?

B. Estimate the time elapsed. Tell the clock person to run off 8 seconds and give them the ball in the frontcourt?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by dave30

I'm still confused !

If it happens again in the future. Should I :


A. Take the ball back to the original throw-in spot and not worry if the defense presses?

B. Estimate the time elapsed. Tell the clock person to run off 8 seconds and give them the ball in the frontcourt?

Well, us "experts" here are somewhat divided. Some will say A, some will say B. (See above for how the vote plays out.)

This may be a good play to talk over with your interpreter, so at least your entire association will be on the same page.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by dave30

I'm still confused !

If it happens again in the future. Should I :


A. Take the ball back to the original throw-in spot and not worry if the defense presses?

B. Estimate the time elapsed. Tell the clock person to run off 8 seconds and give them the ball in the frontcourt?

C. You or your partner(s) glance at the clock as the ball is inbounded to make sure it starts correctly.