New AP arrow rule

[CoachP]

New thread…just to see if I got it. I don’t want to interrupt the flow of the other one!

1)
Arrow points to Team A
A1 throws ball into play, B1 kicks the ball OOB.
Team A gets another throw in.
But the new throw in is because of the kick violation.
A1 throws in again.
A2 gains possession.
Arrow remains pointed at Team A because of new rule where AP throw in never was completed.
Correct?

2)
B1 fouls A1 for 6th team foul.
A1 inbounds and B2 and A2 catch ball at the same time, whistle, held ball.
(clock man ran 2 seconds off)
Arrow is pointing to Team A.
Team A to throw in.
A1 throws ball into play, B1 jumps and kicks the ball OOB.
But clock man didn't start the clock because the kick/whistle was too fast.
Team A gets another throw in.
But the new throw in is because of the kick violation.
Official hands A1 the ball.
While A1 has ball, scorekeeper realizes it was team B’s 7th foul and sounds horn and alerts official. What happens?


a)Do the Officials give A1 his one and one with lanes cleared, and then go back to throw in for the kick violation and the arrow will remain with Team A after the throw in is complete?

b)Or do we say the clock "should" have started therefore negating the FT's? (with the arrow staying with Team A after the throw in of course)

c) or????

[truerookie]

1)> Correct

2).Since we had a held ball A will get the throw-in for the AP. Then we had a kick ball violation because the ball was not legally inbounded. This will become a DS throw-in.

Now since the official (s) were notified of the foul situation. We will shoot the bonus with lane cleared and then proceed back to POI which is the DS throw-in due to the kicking violation.

[blindzebra]

It's A's ball for the kick, arrow stays with A, error is no longer correctable.

The time not running a second time doesn't matter. You had an error, live ball, time off and a second live ball before it was discovered.

Had it been correctable, there wasn't a change of possession so we'd line up for the FTs. Arrow would stay with team A.

[todd66]

No longer correctable due to second live ball. A keeps the arrow.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by truerookie

then proceed back to POI which is the DS throw-in due to the kicking violation.

first off it is not correctable - foul, (failure to award)
A1 has ball for throw in (live ball) throws in 2 seconds ran off for held ball
(Dead ball after whistle) Must be recognized here (first dead ball after clock ran)
A1 has ball for throw in (live ball) ball inbounded and kicked

Now if it were correctable it is the only time you do not return to POI
restart for the awarding of a Merited free throw without change of possession you would shoot the Free throws and play on.

[Mark Dexter]

I'm going to echo BlindZebra - all that matters here is the second live ball.

In addition, a quick comment of my own. Most of us at the table don't like being called "clock man" - the better term is timer (especially with the wimmen - they REALLY don't like being called clock man!)

[BktBallRef]

Thanks clock girl.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Thanks clock girl.

That should be "clock woman". He's a graduate now, you know.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

first off it is not correctable - foul, (failure to award)
A1 has ball for throw in (live ball) throws in 2 seconds ran off for held ball
(Dead ball after whistle) Must be recognized here (first dead ball after clock ran)
A1 has ball for throw in (live ball) ball inbounded and kicked

Now if it were correctable it is the only time you do not return to POI
restart for the awarding of a Merited free throw without change of possession you would shoot the Free throws and play on.

ok, got it. I know where I made the mistake at. Thanks

[todd66]

The Fed has issued a case play to illustrate the way the rule is to be implemented. Here is the link: http://www.nfhs.org/web/2006/08/basketball.aspx
Click on the comments to 2007/2008 rule changes and the case play is there.

[OHBBREF]

I am going to regret this I know -
But OS the reason for this is right there in black and white for all to see -

"The previous rule could possibly reward a defnsive team for commiting a violation, especially durring an alternating possession throw in"

Sometime you should just admit you were in error and move on!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by todd66

The Fed has issued a case play to illustrate the way the rule is to be implemented. Here is the link: http://www.nfhs.org/web/2006/08/basketball.aspx
Click on the comments to 2007/2008 rule changes and the case play is there.

Yep, straight from the NFHS:

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred. Since the throw-in was not contacted "legally," the throw-in had not ended. Therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. (6-4-4)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CoachP

New thread…just to see if I got it. I don’t want to interrupt the flow of the other one!

1)
Arrow points to Team A
A1 throws ball into play, B1 kicks the ball OOB.
Team A gets another throw in.
But the new throw in is because of the kick violation.
A1 throws in again.
A2 gains possession.
Arrow remains pointed at Team A because of new rule where AP throw in never was completed.
Correct?

Correct.

Originally Posted by CoachP

2)
B1 fouls A1 for 6th team foul.
A1 inbounds and B2 and A2 catch ball at the same time, whistle, held ball.
(clock man ran 2 seconds off)
Arrow is pointing to Team A.
Team A to throw in.
A1 throws ball into play, B1 jumps and kicks the ball OOB.
But clock man didn't start the clock because the kick/whistle was too fast.
Team A gets another throw in.
But the new throw in is because of the kick violation.
Official hands A1 the ball.
While A1 has ball, scorekeeper realizes it was team B’s 7th foul and sounds horn and alerts official. What happens?


a)Do the Officials give A1 his one and one with lanes cleared, and then go back to throw in for the kick violation and the arrow will remain with Team A after the throw in is complete?

b)Or do we say the clock "should" have started therefore negating the FT's? (with the arrow staying with Team A after the throw in of course)

c) or????

Correcting my statment....

It is not correctable. The error occurred during a dead ball. The clock started (during the throwin which led to a held ball). The ball became dead (held ball). The ball became live again (on the throwin that ended with a kick). This live ball was the end of the correctable window.

Ignoring the fact that it is now past the correctable window and assuming it was still correctable...Possession didn't change (a held ball alone is not sufficient for a change of possession) between the point of the error and the recognition of the error, A1 would get the 1+1 with rebounders along the lane and the game continues normally as if the 1+1 was administered correctly the first time. A retains the arrow.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Correct.




C. Since possession didn't change (a held ball alone is not sufficient for a change of possession) between the point of the error and the recognition of the error, A1 gets the 1+1 with rebounders along the lane and the game continues normally as if the 1+1 was administered correctly the first time. A retains the arrow.

Really?

We had 2 live balls and time off before it was discovered.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Really?

We had 2 live balls and time off before it was discovered.

No. I misread it and have corrected my statement.