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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 10:01am
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Ball is tied up, team A gets ball on AP. Once A1 has ball for throw in, but before he/she inbounds the ball, A2 fouls B2. Team B gets the ball after violation (no bonus). Does the arrow switch? I don't believe it does, but I would like to be sure.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 10:14am
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Switch the arrow. A should not benefit from their own foul. The throw in has ended with A's foul.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 10:23am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grail
Switch the arrow. A should not benefit from their own foul. The throw in has ended with A's foul.
No, that's not true. lukealex is correct.

The arrow is not changed if either team fouls before the throw-in is complete. (6-3-5)
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 10:55am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grail
Switch the arrow. A should not benefit from their own foul. The throw in has ended with A's foul.
How can you switch the arrow when you haven't even had a throw-in yet? Leave the arrow with A and give the ball to B, you are not going to double whammy A here.

This got me thinking though, what if A steped over the line and then the throw in? I guess technically the throw in still hasen't been completed so they would just lose the ball and keep the arrow. Is this correct for this sitch?
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally posted by w_sohl
Quote:
Originally posted by Grail
Switch the arrow. A should not benefit from their own foul. The throw in has ended with A's foul.
How can you switch the arrow when you haven't even had a throw-in yet? Leave the arrow with A and give the ball to B, you are not going to double whammy A here.

This got me thinking though, what if A steped over the line and then the throw in? I guess technically the throw in still hasen't been completed so they would just lose the ball and keep the arrow. Is this correct for this sitch?
On your question by NF rules a violation on an alternating position throw in you lose the arrow and the ball
stew in VA
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 12:00pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by w_sohl
This got me thinking though, what if A steped over the line and then the throw in? I guess technically the throw in still hasen't been completed so they would just lose the ball and keep the arrow. Is this correct for this sitch?
No. The rule states that the arrow is changed when the throw-in ends or when Team A violates.

Switch the arrow.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 12:23pm
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Violation = Loss of Arrow. Foul = Penalize the foul, arrow remains the same.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 01:05pm
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My mistake, confused the violation portion of the rule with a foul.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 01:40pm
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That makes sense now, your throw in ends as soonas you violate. However a foul can obviously occur before you end your throw.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 06:27pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by w_sohl
That makes sense now, your throw in ends as soonas you violate. However a foul can obviously occur before you end your throw.
IMO, I'd penalize the first... If it's simultaneous, then pick your first!
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 06:30pm
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I wasn't saying both happend in the sitch, but I would be more likely to say the violation occured first if they occured nearly simultanously
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 07:44pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by w_sohl
I wasn't saying both happend in the sitch, but I would be more likely to say the violation occured first if they occured nearly simultanously
Why?
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 08:11pm
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If you're unsure which occurred first, it would be better to err on the side of the violation, rather than give a player a foul that he shouldn't have received.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 08:44pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
If you're unsure which occurred first, it would be better to err on the side of the violation, rather than give a player a foul that he shouldn't have received.
I agree, that if I'm unsure, then I'm going with the violation.

But if the foul is pretty obvious and at the same time as a violation, and the entire gym saw it, then I'm going with the foul rather than a minor foot over the line throw-in violation.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2005, 08:55pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
If you're unsure which occurred first, it would be better to err on the side of the violation, rather than give a player a foul that he shouldn't have received.
Why? If a player actually committed a foul, why shouldn't they be called for doing so? Why should we always penalize the team that committed the violation- no matter what? If I'm unsure about anything, I ain't gonna be blowing my whistle anyway(hopefully).

You guys are way too deep for me. I ain't good enough to call it that way every time. I just try to make what I think the right and proper call should be in each particular situation, without predetermining what it oughta be. I try to only blow my whistle when I know what I'm gonna call. I'm too dumb to do it any other way.
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