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Old Mon May 14, 2007, 03:01pm
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CCA Men's Basketball Change.

Has there been a change in the "table side" mechanic after fouls on the NCAA Men's side?

I was at a camp this weekend for just one day and we had to use this supposed change. I am sure the change is for real, but I did not see any indication on any of the website. Does anyone have a reference to this change?

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Old Mon May 14, 2007, 03:28pm
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We were told the same thing at a JUCO camp I went to in April. I'm hoping this isn't changed for sure because personally I think it's just a way for college to be different than HS. Going to the table just makes more sense.
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Old Mon May 14, 2007, 03:36pm
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So what is the supposed change? Do you go opposite the table to C like it was before?
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Old Mon May 14, 2007, 05:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay R
So what is the supposed change? Do you go opposite the table to C like it was before?
The calling official goes opposite table as it was about 4 years ago. You do not go to the "C" specifically. I just was told this on Sunday. I do not know much detail other than it was confusing as hell when I was working games. There was even a situation where it would have served me well to go table side.

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Old Mon May 14, 2007, 06:03pm
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I've heard this is coming.

Looks like the grand experiment to encourage coach/official dialogue has come to an end. But when you think about it, typically we only stand by the unhappy coach after fouls in the first half, when his team is on defense. In the second half you usually hear "Good call, keep it up!" Unless you're going TC foul but then we used to just slide. Speaking of that, did they say how to handle FT's on the other end? Calling official goes where? Away from the table to C?
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Old Tue May 15, 2007, 11:51am
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I personally like going tableside and if needed, having a reasonable conversation with the coach. Seems to me that if you go opposite, now the coach has to raise his voice to discuss.

On the other hand, I went to watch a hs neighbor play in a waterpolo match last week. One observation was that not one time during the entire match did any coach or player question an officials call. It was amazing to watch them just accept the calls and move on.
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Old Tue May 15, 2007, 03:13pm
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I like tableside as well. It helps communication and also it just makes sense since you have to head that way to report a foul anyway.
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Old Tue May 15, 2007, 03:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
I've heard this is coming.

Looks like the grand experiment to encourage coach/official dialogue has come to an end. But when you think about it, typically we only stand by the unhappy coach after fouls in the first half, when his team is on defense. In the second half you usually hear "Good call, keep it up!" Unless you're going TC foul but then we used to just slide. Speaking of that, did they say how to handle FT's on the other end? Calling official goes where? Away from the table to C?
Unless you do like they instruct us to do here...stand on the division line about 6 feet from the sideline until shooting the last free throw (basically on the "button" where the volleyballl post is anchored). If the coach has a question about the call, they just move close to the division line and ask. The distance is enough that the conversation must be loud enough for the other coach to here as well.
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Old Tue May 15, 2007, 07:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
Unless you do like they instruct us to do here...stand on the division line about 6 feet from the sideline until shooting the last free throw (basically on the "button" where the volleyballl post is anchored).
Where does it say that?

Two things I think the brain wizards wants to move away from.
1.) Slowing the game down. Apparently, there was too much conversation going on with the HC that they felt this would help faciliate the game faster and keep it moving.
2.) My reasoning. Dialog with the coaches is becoming a problem. Too much of it is occurring betwen the coach and official after a call. We want to keep the focus on the game and not have so much discussion between these parties. Officials holding a clinic after each call is not what we want either. IOW, I think the coaches where taking advantage of this and was constantly working us because they knew you had to come to them after you made a call. It's the assigners that don't like it. They see a trend and they want to move away from it. I like the move, it's a good chess board move.

What gets me is this and I got to get use to it. The opposite table official is the one that gets replaced. So if you are the C or T opposite the table, you administer the F/T's and lose your Cadillac position.
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Old Tue May 15, 2007, 07:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Where does it say that?
It's been the NCAA mens mechanic for at least 3 yrs now.

That's where it says that.
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Old Tue May 15, 2007, 08:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Where does it say that?

Two things I think the brain wizards wants to move away from.
1.) Slowing the game down. Apparently, there was too much conversation going on with the HC that they felt this would help faciliate the game faster and keep it moving.
Not sure how this slows down the game. The person going table side is not likely to have the ball in most cases and on FTs they play no role in the administration of the FT. If anything it slows down the game because I have a coach yelling at you across the court trying to get an explanation from an official that just ran in the other direction. If anything the games I had this weekend it made things worse. Instead of a quiet conversation, it was a yelling match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
2.) My reasoning. Dialog with the coaches is becoming a problem. Too much of it is occurring betwen the coach and official after a call. We want to keep the focus on the game and not have so much discussion between these parties. Officials holding a clinic after each call is not what we want either. IOW, I think the coaches where taking advantage of this and was constantly working us because they knew you had to come to them after you made a call. It's the assigners that don't like it. They see a trend and they want to move away from it. I like the move, it's a good chess board move.
First of all I rarely ever had much conversation with any coach during the table side mechanic. I will admit that when the mechanic first was introduced at the HS level, I thought it would be a lot of back and forth. It did just the opposite. If the coach had something to say he was able to comment with the official standing right next to him who made the call instead of asking an official that did not even see what was called and why. The only people that did not seem to handle it were younger officials that have not yet understood what to say to a coach and younger coaches that do not know how to pick their spots. I might only have had one conversation with a coach during an entire game while a before it was many talks across the court. I do not know where you are officiating, but even the games I watched this was not even a problem. If anything the conversation was short and sweet and it was over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
What gets me is this and I got to get use to it. The opposite table official is the one that gets replaced. So if you are the C or T opposite the table, you administer the F/T's and lose your Cadillac position.
I do not even know what this is suppose to mean.

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Old Wed May 16, 2007, 07:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I will admit that when the mechanic first was introduced at the HS level, I thought it would be a lot of back and forth. It did just the opposite. If the coach had something to say he was able to comment with the official standing right next to him who made the call instead of asking an official that did not even see what was called and why.
I believe that is the point. They want this conversation to stop. There is no need to explain every call you make to a coach or to have so much dialog with the coach. They are seeing a trend here that they do not like, and both sides are guilty. The official has his line already prepared before he gets to the table and the coach is expecting some type of response. They want to kill this, IMO. Plus I have heard about speeding up the game. Now don't shoot the messenger but I did not know it was taking longer to play an NCAA game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool
What gets me is this(,) and I got to get use to it. The opposite table official is the one that gets re(dis)placed. So if you are the C or T opposite the table, you administer the F/T's and lose your Cadillac position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I do not even know what this is suppose to mean.
What I was trying to say was the opposite table official is the one that gets displaced or has to rotate out of his/her position in this new system. It takes some getting use too. The Cadillac position is the Center position.
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Old Wed May 16, 2007, 10:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
I believe that is the point. They want this conversation to stop. There is no need to explain every call you make to a coach or to have so much dialog with the coach. They are seeing a trend here that they do not like, and both sides are guilty. The official has his line already prepared before he gets to the table and the coach is expecting some type of response. They want to kill this, IMO. Plus I have heard about speeding up the game. Now don't shoot the messenger but I did not know it was taking longer to play an NCAA game.
The conversation is not going to stop. The conversation is just between separate people. I was still talking with the coach when I was not the one making the call. All this does is have a person that knows less about the situation involved in the conversation just like before. And there were more adamant behavior from the coaches who could not get an immediate explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
What I was trying to say was the opposite table official is the one that gets displaced or has to rotate out of his/her position in this new system. It takes some getting use too. The Cadillac position is the Center position.
Huh??

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Old Wed May 16, 2007, 02:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
The conversation is not going to stop.
True, but it won't be as much and we get back to the business of the game quicker, imo.
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Old Wed May 16, 2007, 06:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
True, but it won't be as much and we get back to the business of the game quicker, imo.
I am still trying to figure out what this has to do with a quicker game? Going table side does not delay the game any more than going opposite table. Most of the time the calling official is not administering the FT in the first place. In many cases you are going away from where you called a foul

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