Out of Bounds rule 9-3

[Rookie]

Can someone clarify this rule for me? 1) If A1 is dribbling the ball and between dribbles he steps out of bounds, is this a OOB? 2) What if they push it up the court a couple of feet and then step out and back in? (I'm sure you have seen a player unguarded and push the ball up a couple of bounces and then catch up to it)

The Dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundry, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.

My interpretation is that 1 is an OOB violation and 2 is not.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Rookie
Can someone clarify this rule for me? 1) If A1 is dribbling the ball and between dribbles he steps out of bounds, is this a OOB? 2) What if they push it up the court a couple of feet and then step out and back in? (I'm sure you have seen a player unguarded and push the ball up a couple of bounces and then catch up to it)

The Dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundry, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.

My interpretation is that 1 is an OOB violation and 2 is not.

As long as you interpret (2) as a dribble (not interrupted), then both are violations as soon as the dribble steps OOB.

[crew]

rookie i agree with you completely. it is a violation in the first part. in the second part it is a violation if he is the first to touch after stepping out. this is how i have been taught to interpret the play

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by crew
rookie i agree with you completely. it is a violation in the first part. in the second part it is a violation if he is the first to touch after stepping out. this is how i have been taught to interpret the play

This is FED, right?

Have you considered that you've been taught wrong?

We've provided references for other rulings. Can you provide references for your rulings?

[Hawks Coach]

crew
Here is a scenario. A1 is dribbling, ball hits knee and causes A to lose balance and control of ball (interrupted dribble), ball bounces left and A1 steps to the right on/over the boundary line, A1 then returns to the court with both feet in bounds, chases down ball and resumes dribble. Violation or no?

[crew]

hawkscoach,
very difficult question! but i am going to say violation.
why? an interupted dribble in this scenario is still part of a dribble. which would refer back to the dribble rule(though no player control) identified earlier. this is my reasoning, a player dribbles loses control for a second then regains the ball by 1) catching the ball or 2) continuing the dribble. legal in both cases. in the 1st scenario he cannot dribble again because he has already used his dribble. therefor in your situation (hawks coach) i would deem this a violation. though i am not 100%. this is a good question and i tried to play the situation in my mind and thought violation, even then i called my mentor and asked him verbatim what you asked. he agreed violation after some thought and reasoning.
not all plays are cut and dry, philosophy, reasoning, common sense, and rules come into effect on many plays that are discussed in this forum.

bob,
i do consider that some of my philosophies may be incorrect. i have provided rulings for this situation. you have to put a couple of rules together to get a correct outcome, though there is not a ruling that identifies this play exactly. judgement has to be made, not all situations are black and white.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by crew
hawkscoach,
very difficult question! but i am going to say violation.
why? an interupted dribble in this scenario is still part of a dribble. which would refer back to the dribble rule(though no player control) identified earlier. this is my reasoning, a player dribbles loses control for a second then regains the ball by 1) catching the ball or 2) continuing the dribble. legal in both cases. in the 1st scenario he cannot dribble again because he has already used his dribble. therefor in your situation (hawks coach) i would deem this a violation. though i am not 100%. this is a good question and i tried to play the situation in my mind and thought violation, even then i called my mentor and asked him verbatim what you asked. he agreed violation after some thought and reasoning.
not all plays are cut and dry, philosophy, reasoning, common sense, and rules come into effect on many plays that are discussed in this forum.

Crew,it's not a violation.See Case Book 7.1.1B&C.They pretty well spell out why this play is legal.I think you will find that if you spend more time on the casebook rather than the rulebook,these situations will become a lot clearer.

[Richard Ogg]

If the ball hits his knee and gets away, I have an interrupted dribble. Player can step OOB, come back in, and continue to dribble if he does not pick up (i.e., "hold") the ball.

If the player simply shifts his weight wrong and is losing his balance, the ball never bounces funny, but he steps OOB and then returns, allows the ball to bounce more than once, and then.... I struggle with that play. I cannot find a provision to justify an interrupted dribble. (I have seen this play, but fortunately I was not officiating the game.)

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Richard Ogg
If the player simply shifts his weight wrong and is losing his balance, the ball never bounces funny, but he steps OOB and then returns, allows the ball to bounce more than once, and then.... I struggle with that play. I cannot find a provision to justify an interrupted dribble. (I have seen this play, but fortunately I was not officiating the game.)

If the ball momentarily gets away from the dribbler, it's an interrupted dribble. The dribble doesn't have to hit a knee or leg to be interrupted. When in doubt, rule no player control.

Originally posted by crew
hawkscoach,
very difficult question! but i am going to say violation.
why? an interupted dribble in this scenario is still part of a dribble. which would refer back to the dribble rule(though no player control) identified earlier. this is my reasoning, a player dribbles loses control for a second then regains the ball by 1) catching the ball or 2) continuing the dribble. legal in both cases. in the 1st scenario he cannot dribble again because he has already used his dribble. therefor in your situation (hawks coach) i would deem this a violation. though i am not 100%. this is a good question and i tried to play the situation in my mind and thought violation, even then i called my mentor and asked him verbatim what you asked. he agreed violation after some thought and reasoning.
not all plays are cut and dry, philosophy, reasoning, common sense, and rules come into effect on many plays that are discussed in this forum.

bob,
i do consider that some of my philosophies may be incorrect. i have provided rulings for this situation. you have to put a couple of rules together to get a correct outcome, though there is not a ruling that identifies this play exactly. judgement has to be made, not all situations are black and white.

Crew, this play is black and white.
Certain things require player control.
A player cannot travel without player control.
While the clock is running, a player cannot request TO without player control.
A player cannot cause the ball to go OOB if he doesn't have player control and he doesn't touch the ball when he is OOB.

Hawks coach is not referring to a double dribble violation. He's referring to an OOB violation. Read 7.1.1c below.

7.1.1 SITUATION C: A1 blocks a pass near the sideline and the ball goes into A1's front court. A1's momentum carries him/her out of bounds. He/she immediately returns inbounds, secures control of the ball, dribbles, shoots, and scores. Ruling: Legal. (4-35-1A; 7-1-2; 9-3)

This is no different than an interrupted dribble. There is no player control in either case.

[crew]

7.1.1 situation c. i agree. if the player would have controlled the ball it would be a violation if he were the first to touch it, i do not know how to make that clear to you.

[BktBallRef]

Sorry, but you can't because it isn't true.

We've discussed these situations dozens of times on this forum during the past couple of years. If the player doesn't have control of the ball when he goes OOB, he can legally touch the ball when he comes back inbounds.

Bob, mick, Mark P., Mark D., Dan, Juulie, Hawks coach, and Jurassic Ref will all tell you the same thing. But call what you think is right and what works for you.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by hooters
basketballref,
what are you arguing here? i've said all along that if a player controls the ball and then goes out of bounds, he can't be the first to touch it when he comes back in.

Larry, looking back over this post, I don't see where you've previously posted. Help me out and I'll be glad to discuss it with you.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
crew
Here is a scenario. A1 is dribbling, ball hits knee and causes A to lose balance and control of ball (interrupted dribble), ball bounces left and A1 steps to the right on/over the boundary line, A1 then returns to the court with both feet in bounds, chases down ball and resumes dribble. Violation or no?

This is not a violation...and it would not be a violation even if A1 only had one foot in bounds! (As long as the other foot was not OOB)

RookieDude (BTW...a rookie at posts...not at officiating)

[crew]

a1 deflects a pass by b1. a2 catches the ball and throws(controls the ball) it in bounds as his momentum carries out of bounds. (correction)a2 runs back onto the court and is the first to touch the ball. this is a violation. please show me a rule that says it is not a violation.

[Edited by crew on Dec 11th, 2001 at 11:07 AM]

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by crew
a1 deflects a pass by b1. a2 catches the ball and throws(controls the ball) it in bounds as his momentum carries out of bounds. a1 runs back onto the court and is the first to touch the ball. this is a violation. please show me a rule that says it is not a violation.

Well, in your case you are saying that A2 went OOB and then A1 touches the ball - that's obviously no violation

If A1 goes OOB then comes in and touches the ball, go to NF 7-1-2:
The ball is OOB when it touches:
a. A player who is out of bounds
b. Any other person, the floor, or any object on or outside a boundary.
c. The supports or back of the backboard.
d. The ceiling, overhead equipment, or supports.

In this case, we're going by (a.). So, when is a player OOB?
NF 7-1-1:
A player is OOB when he/she touches the floor, or any object other than a player, on or outside a boundary. For location of a player in the air, see 4-35.
NF 4-35-3:
The location of an airborne player [in regard to IB/OOB] is the same as at the time such player was last in contact with the floor or an extension of the floor, such as a bleacher.

Clearly, A1 is not OOB when he taps the ball in the air (and not a controlled tap, either ). When he comes back inbounds, he satisfies the IB requirements of 7-1-1. If he is IB, then when he touches the ball, the ball cannot be OOB.

For casebook plays, see 7.1.1B and 7.1.1C.