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Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 03:02pm
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When should I go to better camps

Ok this is aimed at you DIII, DII and DI college guys. When should I get serious and go to a big time college camp? I've been working for 7 seasons, I work 4A high school ball (the biggest in my area) and just finished my first season of JUCO women's ball. I know I need some more "seasoning" before I'm ready to move up or have a shot at moving up, but age is going to become in issue I think. I'm 35 now. My question is am I better off starting to go to those bigger (and more expensive) camps now, or wait a few seasons until I'll be a better official. This isn't a pressing issue but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 03:41pm
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Go now.

#1- You'll learn something.
#2- You'll be seen.

It's a "can't lose" proposition imo.
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Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 03:55pm
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Why would you wait? Go now - if the powers-that-be who are there like what they see, they will hire you...if they don't they will give you some things to work on and improve on - then you go back next year and show them how much you have improved...
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Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 04:00pm
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I have to agree with JR. (Ok, I don't have to, but he's right in this case. )

I know of very few officials that get picked up the first camp they attend. Usually you have to attend a few so that they start to remember you the 2nd and 3rd time around, see how committed you are to that level, and how much you've improved from the 1st time they saw you. It's hard to stand out from the other 50 or so campers if they don't know you already.

Also, you will learn things, from positioning and techniques during games, to the "political" aspects of the camp. Who should you talk to, and who should you stay away from? Who are the sucessful officials at that level, and why? Who do you really want to see you work?

So, what are you doing playing around on the computer; fill out the damn application!
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Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 04:09pm
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Go to any camp - you can learn at any level.
for college youwill need to pick men or women but beyound that gettingout there and learning will help you and you will be seen.
you can not move up if they don't know who you are.
I missed the cut my first year for college and got picked up mid season.
So don't put it off.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 04:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
Why would you wait? Go now - if the powers-that-be who are there like what they see, they will hire you...if they don't they will give you some things to work on and improve on - then you go back next year and show them how much you have improved...
What he said and others said.

Go to some D2/3 camps. Good luck
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Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 05:53pm
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Seems like you've been doing this long enough to avoid making any future-killing rookie mistakes. Go for as many high-level camps as you can!
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Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 06:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
Ok this is aimed at you DIII, DII and DI college guys. When should I get serious and go to a big time college camp? I've been working for 7 seasons, I work 4A high school ball (the biggest in my area) and just finished my first season of JUCO women's ball. I know I need some more "seasoning" before I'm ready to move up or have a shot at moving up, but age is going to become in issue I think. I'm 35 now. My question is am I better off starting to go to those bigger (and more expensive) camps now, or wait a few seasons until I'll be a better official. This isn't a pressing issue but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
You should go to the bigger camps when you feel ready. I went to my first camp 2 seasons ago and got hired for DIII and JC mens. I was only doing ball for 2 years at the h.s. level. This past summer I went to two more camp and got hired by two other guys for JC. The thing for me is a felt ready to go to camp. In the back of mind I wanted to get hired by the bosses but I reminded myself I'm also there to learn. If tell yourself I have to get hired it will tear you up and you wont perform on the court well. That happened to me last summer. I couldn't focus and was hard to get in the flow of things.IO was hired by the assignor of the camp but wish I could do it over again since that wasn't my best game. DIII is different then JC. From my experience the game is a lot more on fundamentals then taking it to the rack and scoring buckets. I'm surprised that a DIII person didn't pick you up when you get hired for DIII. If i were you, please know that I'm 21, I would buckle down and go to some bigger camps if you feel you can compete with that pool of officials working that level. Remember you will be with some of your colleagues that are working JC, DIII or whatever. My mentor is a very good college basketball official at the DIII and JC level. He wants to get to DI. He said what is hurting is his age I think he is around your age 33-35. So yah age can play a factor but that depends on how far you want to go with it. He got some good looks this past summer by some DI conferences and I think he will get hired this summer. But thats up to you, if want it that bad, then go get it. Work hard, network with the staff, talk to the assignors shake hands so there can put a face to the name at the camp, and tell them your interested in working for them in their conference. I did that last summer at one camp and I got in. Remember what they say, It's easy getting in, but its what you do that will keep you in (hard work, self improvement). Hope this helps.
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Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 09:45pm
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All this advice sounds great. 7 years! Why haven't you already gone. Don't lack confidence. If you feel its time to go, then go. You could try some fail safe camps. By that I mean camps that are still teaching camps such as Roger Ayers and Mike Eades' Referee choice camp. I know they have one assignor there for sure cause I got picked up by him (DII), but I think there are more, plus it is an instructional camp. So if anything you learn plus you have a shot of getting picked up. There other big time camps you are spending a lot of money to tryout, and I'm not saying that's bad. If it were me, I would take the big time camp, but at the same time I have alot of confidence in my abilities as an official, and you better have a whole hell of alot too if you want to make it in.
Also don't forget that the first impression is usually a lasting impression at the big time camps. If you go they expect you to know your stuff and to be good at your craft.

Do you think your ready?
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Old Mon Apr 09, 2007, 10:01pm
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Junker, what's your goal in attending camp? Are you hoping to get hired in a D1 conference? Are you looking to improve your HS state playoff assignments? Trying to impress a particular assignor?

Regardless of how you answer those questions, I would encourage you to get into a camp or two this summer. But find the right camp for your goal(s). If you hope to break D1, then you probably need to hit those try-out camps hard and soon. I felt like my time was running out as I hit 40 years old. Once you get a foot in the door, then who knows where it'll lead; but don't put it off if that's where you want to go.

If your goals are more modest, then it's probably not as urgent to get into a "be seen" camp this year. And you might reasonably decide not to go to a more "expensive" or "big time" camp at all. But I would still try to find a camp where I could get in front of the D3 assignor, for example.

You're not going to embarrass yourself either way. So nail down what you hope to achieve at camp, find a couple that fit your goal and go knock 'em dead.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and how it goes.
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Old Tue Apr 10, 2007, 12:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Junker, what's your goal in attending camp? Are you hoping to get hired in a D1 conference? Are you looking to improve your HS state playoff assignments? Trying to impress a particular assignor?

Regardless of how you answer those questions, I would encourage you to get into a camp or two this summer. But find the right camp for your goal(s). If you hope to break D1, then you probably need to hit those try-out camps hard and soon. I felt like my time was running out as I hit 40 years old. Once you get a foot in the door, then who knows where it'll lead; but don't put it off if that's where you want to go.

If your goals are more modest, then it's probably not as urgent to get into a "be seen" camp this year. And you might reasonably decide not to go to a more "expensive" or "big time" camp at all. But I would still try to find a camp where I could get in front of the D3 assignor, for example.

You're not going to embarrass yourself either way. So nail down what you hope to achieve at camp, find a couple that fit your goal and go knock 'em dead.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and how it goes.
Junker. Chuck hit some good points. I would use his advice in making your camp decisions. Where do you live Junker and what camps are in your area?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 10, 2007, 08:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Junker, what's your goal in attending camp? Are you hoping to get hired in a D1 conference? Are you looking to improve your HS state playoff assignments? Trying to impress a particular assignor?

Regardless of how you answer those questions, I would encourage you to get into a camp or two this summer. But find the right camp for your goal(s). If you hope to break D1, then you probably need to hit those try-out camps hard and soon. I felt like my time was running out as I hit 40 years old. Once you get a foot in the door, then who knows where it'll lead; but don't put it off if that's where you want to go.

If your goals are more modest, then it's probably not as urgent to get into a "be seen" camp this year. And you might reasonably decide not to go to a more "expensive" or "big time" camp at all. But I would still try to find a camp where I could get in front of the D3 assignor, for example.

You're not going to embarrass yourself either way. So nail down what you hope to achieve at camp, find a couple that fit your goal and go knock 'em dead.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and how it goes.
I actually did hit a DIII camp last summer. A friend and mentor became a new assignor and invited me. I know I'm on a waiting list to work for him, he has a lot of good officials he wants to work into the league, but can't come in as the new guy and totally redo his officiating staff. Other than that, I usually hit at least 2 other camps every year, one by my JUCO assignor and one by a HS assignor. I feel that every time you go to camp you should be looking to learn, but as you get farther along in this biz, it definitely gets to be about being seen. I'm actually more interested in moving up in the college ranks. Working college ball fits in better with my "real career" goals. At the moment I want to work a couple more JUCO games next season. I'd certainly like to get to the DI level like most of us, but when setting goals, I want to be realistic with myself. I'm trying to take it one step at a time. Thanks for the thoughts. I appreciate it.
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