Walton / Nantz's point - 6 fouls

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What are you suggesting, exactly? What are you prepared to do to "keep the stars in the game"?

Nobody can keep stars in the game if the stars want to beat the crap out of each other. You can't ignore fouls or rough play. You can't ignore obvious contact that gives an advantage.

If there are two players in the vicinity of the foul AND you could call the foul on either one of them AND you know that one of them has 3 fouls, then I can see giving it to the other one.

But I'm not ignoring an obvious foul by the big guy just because he has 3 fouls.

Exactly.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Exactly what defensive call are you going to make?

Block! Everytime unless I got a clear offensive foul. That puts an end to it too. Remember, you only get 5 and you just pick up 2 for flopping. You be headed to the bench and I send message don't flop in my games. Flopping is okay, it's the yelling afterwards that pi$$es me off.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Block! Everytime unless I got a clear offensive foul. That puts an end to it too. Remember, you only get 5 and you just pick up 2 for flopping. You be headed to the bench and I send message don't flop in my games. Flopping is okay, it's the yelling afterwards that pi$$es me off.

Do you know what a "flop" is?

[Adam]

Flopping is a T or a no-call. Every time I no-called it last year, if the coach said anything it was to his player.
I walked up to one player and warned him after a particularly obvious one. I said, "I know you think we've missed some calls, but don't let me catch you flopping again."
He nodded his head, said, "OK," and didn't flop the rest of the game.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by Old School

I think college could go to 6 fouls because at this level we are marketing the players. More playing time might be the different in a contract to the pro's. We certainly don't want a talent like Oden having to sit the entire 1st half because of two quick fouls.

I don't call collegiate and I have great respect for those of you who do, but to a lesser extent you get the same mentality at the HS level...little Johnny needs to play the whole game so he can get a scholarship to Duke, or Kansas, or wherever. Is it possible that many have forgotten basketball is a TEAM sport?

Part of what makes basketball the great sport that it is...is the strategy involved. So Oden picks up two quick fouls and sits the rest of the first half, the TEAM and it's COACH work strategy around that issue and win the game. I wanted Ohio State to win last night and I couldn't help notice that Oden stayed in most of the first half and was looking pretty tired by half time...and they lost despite him being in the game!

I know there are those who disagree, but I think collegiate level basketball is the highest level. The NBA is all about $$ and it makes it seem more like professional wrestling to me. I'm not taking anything away from NBA athletes because there are some that are truly amazing, but I'd rather watch college ball everytime. JMO, of course!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

Part of what makes basketball the great sport that it is...is the strategy involved. So Oden picks up two quick fouls and sits the rest of the first half, the TEAM and it's COACH work strategy around that issue and win the game. I wanted Ohio State to win last night and I couldn't help notice that Oden stayed in most of the first half and was looking pretty tired by half time...

Maybe that was part of the officials' strategy to help Florida win. Keep Oden in, it'll wear him out because he's not used to playing that much.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

My reality is that I'm not calling a hand check on Maya Moore, 60 feet from the basket for a handcheck in the 4th quarter for her 5th foul. Yes it's a foul, but the crowd didn't pay their $5 or $10 dollars to see me, they came to see the players, and IMHO to put the star of game on the bench for a handcheck in the 4th game that may decide the outcome of the game just doesn't sit well with me and it probably won't sit well with my assignor as well.

That's BS - why do you care what the crowd wants? Your job is solely to manage the game and not entertain the fans. IMO, if the hand check is clearly placing the offsensive player in an disadantage, then a call must be made. ,

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Old School

Block! Everytime unless I got a clear offensive foul. That puts an end to it too. Remember, you only get 5 and you just pick up 2 for flopping. You be headed to the bench and I send message don't flop in my games. Flopping is okay, it's the yelling afterwards that pi$$es me off.

Who cares - and why does it piss you off? Every players are allowed to express their emotion. Why should we allow a player to yell or scream on a power dunk and not let a defensive player who "flop" scream?

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Flopping is a T or a no-call. Every time I no-called it last year, if the coach said anything it was to his player.
I walked up to one player and warned him after a particularly obvious one. I said, "I know you think we've missed some calls, but don't let me catch you flopping again."
He nodded his head, said, "OK," and didn't flop the rest of the game.

He's dumb for listening to you then. Every player is entitle a spot on the court and "FaLLING on the Ground" does not justify a foul or a T. And what if the offensive player did initial the contact?

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

I don't call collegiate and I have great respect for those of you who do, but to a lesser extent you get the same mentality at the HS level...little Johnny needs to play the whole game so he can get a scholarship to Duke, or Kansas, or wherever. Is it possible that many have forgotten basketball is a TEAM sport?

Part of what makes basketball the great sport that it is...is the strategy involved. So Oden picks up two quick fouls and sits the rest of the first half, the TEAM and it's COACH work strategy around that issue and win the game. I wanted Ohio State to win last night and I couldn't help notice that Oden stayed in most of the first half and was looking pretty tired by half time...and they lost despite him being in the game!

I know there are those who disagree, but I think collegiate level basketball is the highest level. The NBA is all about $$ and it makes it seem more like professional wrestling to me. I'm not taking anything away from NBA athletes because there are some that are truly amazing, but I'd rather watch college ball everytime. JMO, of course!

I agree. 6 fouls in college = higher scoring. Higher scoring = more people watching it. More people watching it = higher revunue. They are finding more opp. to make more $$$ out of the college students.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

He's dumb for listening to you then. Every player is entitle a spot on the court and "FaLLING on the Ground" does not justify a foul or a T.

Do you ever read a rule book?

You don't have a clue what a "flop" is either.

[AFHusker]

Originally Posted by Old School

I think college could go to 6 fouls because at this level we are marketing the players. More playing time might be the different in a contract to the pro's. We certainly don't want a talent like Oden having to sit the entire 1st half because of two quick fouls. Also, the game is called a little bit tighter in the NCAA then in the NBA, and when you get into the tournament, it's one and done. I think 6 fouls for college is a good idea.

Funny, I thought we, as officials at all levels of basketball, were there to enforce the rules of the game of basketball not market the players.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

He's dumb for listening to you then. Every player is entitle a spot on the court and "FaLLING on the Ground" does not justify a foul or a T. And what if the offensive player did initial the contact?

Here's a hint. Read through rule 10 where it talks about technical fouls. Flopping is a technical foul for trying to influence an officials call. It's specifically mentioned.

And if the offensive player initials the contact, I'm calling a T on him for bringing a pen onto the court.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's a hint. Read through rule 10 where it talks about technical fouls. Flopping is a technical foul for trying to influence an officials call. It's specifically mentioned.

And if the offensive player initials the contact, I'm calling a T on him for bringing a pen Sharpie onto the court.

There. I fixed it for you.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's a hint. Read through rule 10 where it talks about technical fouls. Flopping is a technical foul for trying to influence an officials call. It's specifically mentioned.

And if the offensive player initials the contact, I'm calling a T on him for bringing a pen onto the court.

That's BS too - just because a player is falling on the floor, it does not mean he/she is trying to influence a call (unless he/she screams 'FOUL' at your face). Unless the rule book define what a flop is, I don't think there's anyway a flop should be deemed a "T". What if the defensive player has poor footwork, felt on the floor but were able to distract an offensive player from scoring. How can you penalize a player for distracting a player?

IF A DEFENSIVE PLAYER IS PLAYING DEFENSIVE WITH HIS/HER HANDS UP, YOU CAN ARGUE THAT HE/SHE IS "PURPOSELY DIVERTING AN OPPIONENT'S ATTENTION BY WAVING THE HANDS NEAR THE OPPONENT'S EYES FOR EXPRESS PURPOSE OF OBSTRUCTING THE VISION SO THAT HE/SHE CANNOT SEE." If you want to play God, you can alway find an excuse to "T" someone up. But IMO some rules are just lame.