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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 08:39pm
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Walton / Nantz's point - 6 fouls

Should NFHS and NCAA go to 6 fouls because there are 3 officials?

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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 09:23pm
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any suggestion by Bill walton should be ignored -- in fact since he suggested 6 fouls we SHOULD go to 4 because that would probably make more sense
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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 09:39pm
mj mj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larks
Should NFHS and NCAA go to 6 fouls because there are 3 officials?

Discuss
Every year a point of emphasis is rough play. Going to 6 fouls would only encourage rough play imo.
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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 09:52pm
CJN CJN is offline
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billy packer had a take on this (i believe it is one of his more ridiculous statements)

"i don't know why a player should have to sit no matter how many fouls they have, maybe just add some kind of bonus for that player's fouls when they are over a number"

this was mid 1st half of the championship game
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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 09:53pm
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Here's anovel idea - stop fouling, then you owuldn't need a 6th foul.
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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 09:55pm
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Dunovan or Donovan?

Billy Packer can't even pronounce Billy Donovan's name correctly. I'm trying to figure out who Billy DUNovan is?
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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 10:10pm
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NBA - 48 Minute game, 6 fouls. I foul per 8 minutes of play.

NCAA - 40 minutes, 5 fouls. I foul per 8 minutes of play.

NFHS - 32 Minutes, 5 fouls. I foul per 6:24 of play.

If the Federation wants to cut back on rough play they could drop the fouls to 4 wich would allign themsleves with the other levels of play with 1 foul allowed per 8 minutes of the game.
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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 11:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJN
billy packer had a take on this (i believe it is one of his more ridiculous statements)

"i don't know why a player should have to sit no matter how many fouls they have, maybe just add some kind of bonus for that player's fouls when they are over a number"
In this great logic he made reference to the fact that players in other sports do not foul out. Hmmmmm........Integrate fundamental concepts from other sports into basketball...Brilliant!!! Let's give 'em all bats, Billy! That should cut down on the hand checking!
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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 11:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDUB
NBA - 48 Minute game, 6 fouls. I foul per 8 minutes of play.

NCAA - 40 minutes, 5 fouls. I foul per 8 minutes of play.

NFHS - 32 Minutes, 5 fouls. I foul per 6:24 of play.

If the Federation wants to cut back on rough play they could drop the fouls to 4 wich would allign themsleves with the other levels of play with 1 foul allowed per 8 minutes of the game.
Good break down! I never thought of fouls as per minute.
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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 11:13pm
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Nantz seemed to think that this idea did indeed have some merit, but for this unique reason. He said something about the third set of eyes on the court needing to somehow justify its presence, and therefore, paraphrasing now, calling some cheap ones just to hear the sound of ones own whistle. Could someone possibly explain to him that adding the third whistle was intended to improve the quality, not the quantity, of calls that are made. Is this not like what the cops say about sitting out on the road in large numbers? This is not to give more tickets, it is to prevent more infractions. Having said all this, does anyone have any data on the average number of fouls in NCAA games, comparing 2 whistle and 3 whistle?
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Old Mon Apr 02, 2007, 11:51pm
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Ref Magazine did a story last year on 2 vs. 3-man in NFHS games (Iowa vs. Illinois). Average was 1 more foul called in the 3-man game.

I see a P.O.E. next year about flopping. Saw a ton of it this year in NCAA games. It doesn't seem to work yet it's taught everywhere. Letting out a yell or moan when hit is an automatic no-call, although sometimes the kids get run over anyway. Need to find a balance.
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Old Tue Apr 03, 2007, 05:36am
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When I was coaching I expected my players to commit fouls. I told them if they didn't have 3 or 4 fouls at the end of the game, they weren't playing hard enough.

Giving the players a 6th foul would be the wrong direction for players, for sure.
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Old Tue Apr 03, 2007, 06:31am
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There is no need to go to six fouls. However, some officials -- at all levels from high school through major Division I -- need to learn to keep the stars in the game. In both the men's and women's Final Fours, there have been too many players in foul trouble, oftentimes getting hit with ticky tack fouls. If light to moderate contact does not create an advantage or disadvantage -- like the ridiculous holding foul on Georgetown's Hibbert when Ohio State was clearly going to get the rebound anyway -- then the officials really should pass on blowing the whistle.
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Old Tue Apr 03, 2007, 07:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastref
However, some officials -- at all levels from high school through major Division I -- need to learn to keep the stars in the game.
Are you serious?

Are you an official?

That's the kind of statement that comes from fans, not officials. If you are an official, you need to learn that "keeping the stars in the game" goes against our training.

That's complete doodoo!
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Old Tue Apr 03, 2007, 07:24am
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Quote AuLEAD:" The Big East Conference said today it would seek permission from the National Collegiate Athletic Association to permit players to accumulate six fouls, rather than five, before being forced out of a game.

The Big East Conference said today it would seek permission from the National Collegiate Athletic Association to permit players to accumulate six fouls, rather than five, before being forced out of a game.

The six-foul rule was approved by a vote of the league's coaches, a spokeswoman, Chris Plonsky, said.

The coaches rejected a proposed rule change that would have allowed players fouled in the act of shooting a 3-point basket to shoot three free throws instead of two, Plonsky said.

The Boston College coach, Jim O'Brien, who voted against the changes, said, ''The lesser teams work hard trying to get the other team's big men out of the game and now this just increases the better team's chances.''

The N.C.A.A. this year said it would give individual conferences the option of adopting the rules changes. Permission to use the rule is ''usually a formality,'' Plonsky said.

If approved, the six-foul rule would apply to conference games and the Big East tournament. It could be used in nonconference games involving a Big East team with the approval of both coaches. The rule would not be used in the N.C.A.A. tournament. "

Interesting decision in this Aug 10,1989 News Quote (especially the denial of three shot foul) which reflects the big east urban inside muscle game bias that existed more in the past than present. I was glad to hear John Wooden quoted this weekend that the most important change NCAA should stem increased contact/aggression (unfortunately Wooden is swimming uphill on this one cause the muscle game is good for tv). I am not a ref but have been lurking on your site and have learned tons. Following this subject line, I thought the 'style' of calls in second half GTown v. UNC hurt Carolina. Sorry for throwing too much into this first post.

Last edited by Dealone; Tue Apr 03, 2007 at 07:30am.
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