Block Charge

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TRef21

Does anyone have there NCAA 2006 rule book? I know that exact play is in there. Can give a reference in the 2007 book with that rule. I have heard different things. Some say AP others say POI.

It's always POI. Sometimes, the POI is AP (when there's no team control).

[WIRef]

Just one question regarding this play that I have not seen any discussion on yet. Why did they opt to go with the double foul, instead of deciding which call to go with? I do not have a lot of experience in 3-man, but I have learned that there are more distinct coverage areas than in 2-man. From what I can remember of the play, I think the "C" should have had the call, as the play came from his area, and the "L" was on opposite side baseline. I do not think much of Billy Packer's explanation. Is is possible that the officials decided that in fairness to both teams they would go double foul? That seems to be a bail out for the officials. Any thoughts on this?

[BBall_Junkie]

because, by rule, if both officials signal conflicting fouls, a double foul is issued to both player and the ball is put back in play at the poi.

[Mountaineer]

By rule they have to go with the double foul. Not sure what the reference is, but someone will come back with it.

It's really the only fair way of doing it since both officials obviously saw something different.

[WIRef]

OK. I see the reasoning (ruling) behind the decision they made. Let me take it one question further. I know it is in the heat of a big game, but should have one official given way to the other before making a signal? My first reaction when they came back from commercial, to hear that neither official wanted to give up his call (as Billy Packer would say), was that it should be interesting in the locker room after the game. Would you use this ruling in the course of a regular high school season, or would you decide among officials which call to go with? Just trying to understand if/when I get in this situation. Thanks for the great information.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by WIRef

Would you use this ruling in the course of a regular high school season, or would you decide among officials which call to go with?

Read NFHS case book play 4.19.8SitC. It tells you what to do.

[Adam]

Ideally, you withhold your preliminary signals and make sure there are no other whistles before signalling. Once you've both signaled, though, you have to go with both calls by rule.
Some refs will still get together and decide on one foul, but the casebook says you're supposed to go with both.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Ideally, you withhold your preliminary signals and make sure there are no other whistles before signalling. Once you've both signaled, though, you have to go with both calls by rule.
Some refs will still get together and decide on one foul, but the casebook says you're supposed to go with both.

Well put. Definitely want to emphasize this sitch in your pregame. My rule of thumb is, the primary takes the call, ALWAYS, unless he gives it up to you. If he blew the call, he lives with it.

[tmp44]

It's situations like this that NCAA-M officials "mechanics" drive me nuts sometimes. At times, they are so inclined to sell their call, that there is no fist in the air before anything else.

That being said, there's a reason these guys are in Atlanta this weekend and I'm here sitting on my couch....

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Ideally, you withhold your preliminary signals and make sure there are no other whistles before signalling. Once you've both signaled, though, you have to go with both calls by rule.
Some refs will still get together and decide on one foul, but the casebook says you're supposed to go with both.

See the UNC Tennessee game last night. At least 3 or 4 double whistles on these types of plays and no "blarges." Great job by the crew. And the lead gave it up to the center every time.

[wildcatter]

Originally Posted by refguy

See the UNC Tennessee game last night. At least 3 or 4 double whistles on these types of plays and no "blarges." Great job by the crew. And the lead gave it up to the center every time.

I thought they did a tremendous job too - just for clarification, in NCAA-W the rule is different I believe - you don't have to have a blarge, you can come in and discuss it...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by refguy

See the UNC Tennessee game last night. At least 3 or 4 double whistles on these types of plays and no "blarges." Great job by the crew. And the lead gave it up to the center every time.

I didn't see the game, but as wildcatter states, NCAAW does this different than the men and the FED. Did they give preliminary signals the conflicted? They are supposed to get together and make a decision, giving the foul to one player. I guarantee you NCAAM officials in this level of game will go with the double foul; and they'll be just as right as the women's officials who are going with one foul.
Look at it this way, it's a lot more incentive in the men's game and in the fed to withhold your preliminary signals and avoid the scenario altogether.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by WIRef

OK. I see the reasoning (ruling) behind the decision they made. Let me take it one question further. I know it is in the heat of a big game, but should have one official given way to the other before making a signal?

That's great when they both go up with a fist but that's not what happened. The L immediately signalled block and the C immediatelu signalled PC.

No choice. Double foul.

[WIRef]

So I ask this question again. Who's call should this have been? I understand that in the heat of a big game that a double whistle could happen, and I don't have a problem with that. Ideally, one of the officials should have dropped their call before making a signal. That being said, they applied the correct procedure (other than the POI) by book rule, and that is why they are some of the best officials in the country. That fact that they did miss the POI goes to show that they very rarely have conflicting signals, and thus rarely have to apply the rule.

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by WIRef

So I ask this question again. Who's call should this have been? I understand that in the heat of a big game that a double whistle could happen, and I don't have a problem with that. Ideally, one of the officials should have dropped their call before making a signal. That being said, they applied the correct procedure (other than the POI) by book rule, and that is why they are some of the best officials in the country. That fact that they did miss the POI goes to show that they very rarely have conflicting signals, and thus rarely have to apply the rule.

This is 100% C's call. The lead official called across the paint. If lead has a whistle he needs to hold his fist in the air!