Block/Charge

[harmbu]

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this in an NCAA-II game last night. There was a typical block/charge type of play. I thought the call should have been a block (against the team I was rooting for), but what happened floored me. There was a double whistle on the play. One official signaled for a block while the other signaled for a charge. After about two or three minutes of discussion between the two officials, they called both coaches to the table. After the discussion with the coaches, the announcer said that the call was a double foul. To top it all off, the offensive player made the basket and the officials counted the bucket. It really didn't make a big difference because it was a 20-point game at the time with about two minutes remaining. Has anyone else ever seen anything like this?

[red]

I'm struggling with the double-foul call. I basically comes down to whether the defense had legal guarding position, or not. It should have been up to the referee to call it one way or the other. Calling the double-foul makes not sense. If they couldn't decide, my thought is they should have called it a no whistle and went with the AP ruling.

[Camron Rust]

When two officials have a conflicting view of a block/charge play and both have whistled and signaled, the rule is that it is a double foul, count the bucket, go to the arrow. To have it any other way would be to invite bigger trouble.

[Jay R]

NCAA Men's. The double foul was correct. Obviously, it was mistake for the officials not to make eye contact and avoid two calls. However, after the fact, you have to call both fouls. If the ball was released prior to the contact, then count the basket.

[Rich]

Originally posted by red
I'm struggling with the double-foul call. I basically comes down to whether the defense had legal guarding position, or not. It should have been up to the referee to call it one way or the other. Calling the double-foul makes not sense. If they couldn't decide, my thought is they should have called it a no whistle and went with the AP ruling.

It's the rule. And in NCAAM if the shot was released before the contact, the basket counts.

Once both officials signal, it's the right thing to do.

[red]

Thanks for the ruling. It now makes sense.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by red
Thanks for the ruling. It now makes sense.

Oh I don't know about makes sense but it is in the case book. Check-out NFHS 4.19.7

Considered a double foul and therefore not a Player Control foul. Therefore the ball is not dead - count the shot. Next possession is by the alternating Possession Arrow at the site of the collision - same as any other Double Foul.

[harmbu]

Thanks for the information. I had never seen this happen in all my years of watching basketball games.

[footlocker]

this is similar to a recent thread. The call was right. But two or three minutes, are you kidding?

I also disagree with the though that the referee ought to make the call. Sure, by rule he has the ability to overrule. But, does that make it right? No necessarily. It is only justification. They should be getting together to make the right call.

If they both preliminaried, then you have to go double foul. If it is just a double whistle and they come together to discuss, then one person should be able to explain what was seen better than the other. If the play was to close to come up with an agreement, the person who was watching the defender in the primary should take the call. I believe that you have to avoid a situation like the double foul here. But this has to take place quickly, because one team is going to be pissed off here.

Am I rambling...

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by footlocker
this is similar to a recent thread. The call was right. But two or three minutes, are you kidding?

I also disagree with the though that the referee ought to make the call.

I think by rule, he DOES NOT have the authority to overrule, at least not in Fed, nor in NCAA. The situation posted above is covered in both casebooks, I think, and the specifics of how to handle it are covered. I don't believe there's any judgment involved once the "Blarge" has been signalled.

[footlocker]

Again, that is what I said. You have to go with the double foul. But if you only have a double whistle, its time to get the call right, not some pi$$ing contest with some playing the referee card.

[SMEngmann]

I had a similar situation last Friday, but fortunately we avoided the dreaded "blarge." It was a blowout and I was the lead, I saw the whole play and had a player control foul. My partner double-whistled me and after we made eye contact, he rushed a block signal. I deferred to him even though we had pregamed that the lead takes double whistles coming at him. I had a similar situation earlier his year when I was the trail and I came in strong with the block call, although we both had a block on that play. The tough part about these calls is that any hint of confusion among the officials is an invitation for harsh criticism ("The ref guessed on that one" or "he wasn't sure"). I guess it underscores the need for a good pregame and good discipline and communication on the court.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I think by rule, he DOES NOT have the authority to overrule, at least not in Fed, nor in NCAA. The situation posted above is covered in both casebooks, I think, and the specifics of how to handle it are covered. I don't believe there's any judgment involved once the "Blarge" has been signalled.

You are correct. I believe NCAA women's requires the 2 calling officials to decide one or the other, but under ncaam it's a double foul by rule...although it's kinda encouraged that one of the two officials give up the call.