Long Time Lurker, First Time Poster

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Yet another bullsh1t interpretation from the King of Bullsh1t Interpretations.

Assuming you blow the whistle before anyone touches the ball after it's rolled in why does the ball retain the location it last touched on the court instead of where it last touched a player?

Note they use the word *or*.

Geeze...time to visit the ignore feature.

Because which one happened last or most recently, Dan? The ball contacted the court, so that is it's location. It's not hard.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Ya know, I looked and I looked and I looked again and I just cannot find that little asterisk that says "does not apply to throw-ins".

You're gonna have to help me out here. Extra credit if you can quote a real rule.

This is scary. Dan and I agree on this. Why wouldn't 4-4-3 apply during a throw-in? Is there somewhere in the rules where it says that it doesn't?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Because which one happened last or most recently, Dan? The ball contacted the court, so that is it's location. It's not hard.

So you're interpreting the word "or" as "the last or most recent thing that happened".

Nice.

I prefer to interpret it as "or".

It's not hard.

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is scary. Dan and I agree on this. Why wouldn't 4-3-3 apply during a throw-in? Is there somewhere in the rules where it says that it doesn't?

Legitimate question followed by another:

If you have a double foul in the key after the throw-in has been released but before it is touched(like the current situation), where is the POI?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

So you're interpreting the word "or" as "the last or most recent thing that happened".

Where it last touched a player or the court, obviously means just that.

Sorry that you don't agree, but you are going to be in the minority on that one.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Legitimate question followed by another:

If you have a double foul in the key after the throw-in has been released but before it is touched(like the current situation), where is the POI?

Ah, answering a question with another question. I like that, I'll give it a shot...

Where in the original post is there a foul of any type?

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Ah, answering a question with another question. I like that, I'll give it a shot...

Where in the original post is there a foul of any type?

Let me connect the dots....
Would the throw-in spot be any different in the 2 scenarios? (Mine or the original)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Legitimate question followed by another:

If you have a double foul in the key after the throw-in has been released but before it is touched(like the current situation), where is the POI?

The original throw-in spot.

Why? -- because a double foul DURING a throw-in is clearly one of the items listed in 4-36-1 that invokes the POI rule. Ball location doesn't matter if the double foul happened DURING the throw-in because 4-36-2b doesn't say to go to the location of the ball, only 4-36-2a does. For part b the POI is the throw-in.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Let me connect the dots....
Would the throw-in spot be any different in the 2 scenarios? (Mine or the original)

Yep, because under the current rules the OP is NOT a POI situation because the reason for the stoppage is not one of those listed in 4-36-1.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Therefore, by the current wording of the NFHS rules, this play results in an AP throw-in from the nearest OOB spot to where the ball last contacted the floor. I'll state now that I believe that this is an absolutely horrible outcome, but it is the current application of the rules. In my opinion, any official who did it that way would need a police escort out of the gym, if the arrow happened to favor the defense. So what else can we do?

YOW!!!

What else can we do? How about we take a look at the definition of when a throw-in ends???

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yep, because under the current rules the OP is NOT a POI situation because the reason for the stoppage is not one of those listed in 4-36-1.

So what I'm hearing is that you're going to complete the throw-in for them and advance the ball?!?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Where it last touched a player or the court, obviously means just that.

Sorry that you don't agree, but you are going to be in the minority on that one.

2 things:

1. Even though this is a debate between 2 people your interpretation is that one of us in in the minority. Is it possible to be promoted from King of Bullsh1t Interpretations to something higher? Emperor? Need to look into that.

2. If they meant it your way simply inserting the word "either" would have made it clear. Example: A1 is standing OOB when the ball bounces off his hands and lands OOB on the other sideline (let's assume A1 is Chuck). Where's the throw-in spot? Where it last touched the player or where it most recently touched either the player or the floor?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Let me connect the dots....
Would the throw-in spot be any different in the 2 scenarios? (Mine or the original)

Not following you at all my friend.

One whistle is for a foul.

The other is to fix a clock error.

Completely different scenarios.

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by socalreff

The only way the new throw-in spot changes is if the previous throw-in is completed. There was no infraction that would place the ball at a new spot when the whistle blew.

For instance, if the ball continued rolling and went OOBs, we have a turnover and team B would return to the baseline for an inbounds... so why wouldn't it return to the baseline after the official's whistle for the clock correction?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

For instance, if the ball continued rolling and went OOBs, we have a turnover and team B would return to the baseline for an inbounds... so why wouldn't it return to the baseline after the official's whistle for the clock correction?

Because there are two completely different rules that would come into play. If the ball went OOB untouched, 9-2-2 is the governing rule and the penalty for section 2 on page 56 says that the throw-in goes back to the original spot. If the official sounds the whistle to stop the game for a clock problem, the we need to use the rule that governs that stoppage. That rule says to go to the location of the ball, so 4-3-3 must be consulted and that will determine the placement of the ensuing throw-in.