The crew did nothing...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bgtg19

I absolutely agree that in the case play you cited, yelling profanity at the officials was the predominant factor in the NFHS's ruling that a flagrant technical foul should be called. Do you honestly not see the presence of other factors, too? Do you not see the possibility that the other factors might have been used to convert a technical foul into a flagrant technical foul?

Other factors aren't relevant in that case play. It's that simple. You're looking for excuses not to make the call that the case play is directing you to make.

[JRutledge]

So if the player says "Dammit that was terrible" you are ejecting on the spot?

Peace

[deecee]

JRut -- even I can see the difference between what you just said and what was on the OP.

What you said relates to the call and the OP was very personal with a curse word thrown in.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So if the player says "Dammit that was terrible" you are ejecting on the spot?

Peace

Nope, that's a T. There's something magical about the F-bomb, though. No, the word itself isn't an auto-ejector, but it's all but an automatic T with a very short distance to go for an ejection.
In a MS game, I had a kid come back with "I had the F-ing ball." That was a T. If it was, "You F-ing moron, I had the ball," he would have been watching the rest of the game from the bench.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So if the player says "Dammit that was terrible" you are ejecting on the spot?

Peace

No, but of course you changed the most important part of the phrase from the original post...YOU!

Dammit, you are terrible is a bit different now isn't it?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

No, but of course you changed the most important part of the phrase from the original post...YOU!

Dammit, you are terrible is a bit different now isn't it?

You and others have said that "profanity" from a player required an ejection. We are not talking about the OP any more. Part of this conversation has even been about when and why an ejection is appropriate. We stopped talking only about the OP a long time ago. Even the OPer said that he would be OK with my point of view if I gave a T. Profanity has a very, very, very broad definition to it. I also asked this before about what is the definition of profanity and no one seems to want to answer that question. Even if the "F-Word" was used, it is not an automatic to me. Automatic to me means without thought, without any consideration of other facts and without circumstances. If people get their panties all in a bunch when someone says "always" or "never" I really do not understand why "automatic" is a better phrase for something that is never with the same set of circumstances? You do not have to answer. I just am making a statement.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nope, that's a T. There's something magical about the F-bomb, though.

But remember the Casebook which you are others are defending does not make that distinction.

5.6.2 SITUATION F:
Following the final horn in a game which has Team A leading 62-60, the coach of Team A sprints after the game officials and shouts profanity at the referee who has just left the playing court outside the end line.

RULING: The referee shall charge the coach with a flagrant technical foul and the results of the two free throws will determine whether an extra period will be necessary. The jurisdiction of the officials had not ended as the referee was still within the visual confines of the playing area. (2-2-4)

I read nothing that says the word "Damn" is different than the F-word or the C-word or any number of terms that would be deemed inappropriate.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No, the word itself isn't an auto-ejector, but it's all but an automatic T with a very short distance to go for an ejection.
In a MS game, I had a kid come back with "I had the F-ing ball." That was a T. If it was, "You F-ing moron, I had the ball," he would have been watching the rest of the game from the bench.

Then we agree on some level. Even you are making judgments based on circumstances. I just take the issue with the words "automatic." I have no problem if you decide to just get rid of a player that uses certain words toward you. But do not tell me the casebook or the NF makes it clear what is profanity and what is not profanity. I also want to make it clear; I do not need profanity to decide to eject a player. There are slang terms, racial remark, personal comments that would bring an ejection likely from me and the F-word was never uttered. And it might be something that only myself and others like me would understand.

Peace

[JoeTheRef]

What if you or your partner were f***ing horrible that night, and you know it. Then said player verbally confirms that to you, are you still ejecting?

I guess I'm in the minority on this and thus must be a f***ing horrible official, because I'm not issuing the flagrant T.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But remember the Casebook which you are others are defending does not make that distinction.

[B]5.6.2 SITUATION F:
Following the final horn in a game which has Team A leading 62-60, the coach of Team A sprints after the game officials and shouts profanity at the referee who has just left the playing court outside the end line.

You're right, what constitutes profanity is up to the officials' judgment. Not sure I've ever met an official that wouldn't consider "f-ing terrible" among the worst profanity available. This goes towards my question earlier, how is the OP different than the case play in a way that makes the OP, as described, more acceptable.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then we agree on some level. Even you are making judgments based on circumstances. I just take the issue with the words "automatic."

I said "all but automatic." I'm not going to say automatic, because I've let a coach deal with it before when a player was using the F-bomb out of personal frustration. I've allowed a coach to say "Bull Sh$#" once when he was directly quoting a player from the other team. Neither were directed at me, and the player was dealt with by the coach.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have no problem if you decide to just get rid of a player that uses certain words toward you. But do not tell me the casebook or the NF makes it clear what is profanity and what is not profanity.

No, it doesn't; but I can't think of much that is worse than the OP, unless he strung a bunch of profanity together or some how managed to go on some sort of racial tirade.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I also want to make it clear; I do not need profanity to decide to eject a player. There are slang terms, racial remark, personal comments that would bring an ejection likely from me and the F-word was never uttered. And it might be something that only myself and others like me would understand.

Agreed.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You and others have said that "profanity" from a player required an ejection.

Nope, we're saying that profanity directed at a referee requires an ejection. That's completely different from plain old profanity.

Would you let a player call you a "f**king idiot", Jeff?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

What if you or your partner were f***ing horrible that night, and you know it. Then said player verbally confirms that to you, are you still ejecting?

I don't care if I set back officiating by 30 years, this comment is not appropriate and my performance level won't affect how I address it.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You and others have said that "profanity" from a player required an ejection. We are not talking about the OP any more. Part of this conversation has even been about when and why an ejection is appropriate. We stopped talking only about the OP a long time ago. Even the OPer said that he would be OK with my point of view if I gave a T. Profanity has a very, very, very broad definition to it. I also asked this before about what is the definition of profanity and no one seems to want to answer that question. Even if the "F-Word" was used, it is not an automatic to me. Automatic to me means without thought, without any consideration of other facts and without circumstances. If people get their panties all in a bunch when someone says "always" or "never" I really do not understand why "automatic" is a better phrase for something that is never with the same set of circumstances? You do not have to answer. I just am making a statement.

Peace

I never once said that profanity = ejection.

I said, and correctly so, that the phrase in the original post = ejection.

Let's look at it this way:

Profanity, by rule, is a t'able offense.

Remarks directed at an official showing displeasure about a call is also a t'able offense.

The original post had a phrase that had 2 t'able offenses in it...1 + 1 = 2 and an ejection.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope, we're saying that profanity directed at a referee requires an ejection. That's completely different from plain old profanity.

Would you let a player call you a "f**king idiot", Jeff?

Maybe you need to read this thread. I do not recall I said I would let anyone do anything. I think I was talking about if ejection was the only option. To me ejection is not the only option. Personally I would rather hurt a team with 4 FTs instead of 2.

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe you need to read this thread. I do not recall I said I would let anyone do anything. I think I was talking about if ejection was the only option. To me ejection is not the only option. Personally I would rather hurt a team with 4 FTs instead of 2.

Peace

Than whack him twice, bang-bang instead of one, but to keep the kid around hoping to get him again is ridiculous.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't care if I set back officiating by 30 years, this comment is not appropriate and my performance level won't affect how I address it.

The comment is NEVER appropriate, EVERY referee on this board has acknowledged that. It's the punishment that we referees will pass down according to our judgement that is being questioned.

If I have a partner who's stinking the joint up, kicking calls all over the place, then feels the need to eject a player because a player makes an comment to him regarding his performance that night, I'll probably be kicking any future scheduled games back with that partner.... A previous poster said a coach will probably appeal the ejection. The state will get your report, then a copy of the tape, see how horrible you were, and probably give a monetary reward to the player for his astute on-court evaluation of that referee.