Stop Sign Not Considered Harmful

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

If you are a serious NFHS Official, you should be on this mailing list. In fact, I would make this required reading.

If you were serious about actually becoming an official one day, don't you think that maybe buying the NFHS rule book, case book and Manual might be a little more beneficial than some booklet? I'm not saying that you actually have to read them. One step at a time in your case.

Somewhere down the line you might actually learn what a POE is too.

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Old School

There is medication available for this. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but you are becoming delusional. You are beginning to believe your own fantasy. I recommend a psychiatrist, but a cheaper solution is to just get some of the over-the-counter stuff.

Can I ask you a question because I honestly want to know the answer. I'm not trying to draw you into a debate.

Do you own and/or regularly study the approved NFHS rules book? Also, have you ever officiated a high school game played under the direction of NFHS rules?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Can I ask you a question because I honestly want to know the answer. I'm not trying to draw you into a debate.

Do you own and/or regularly study the approved NFHS rules book? Also, have you ever officiated a high school game played under the direction of NFHS rules?

I answered your question but it got deleted. So the only thing I can tell you is to not ask questions you already know the answer too, and if you don't really know the answer, then you need help of which I have not the answer. You might try asking JR. He knows everything.

[GarthB]

Okay, what we have here is two parties stating the truth.

1. Oldie has a booklet put out by NASO/Referee that carries and endorsement by NFHS on the cover. In this booklet there is some mention of the "stop sign."

2. J-R accurately states that the "stop sign" has never been a POE and has not been included in the NFHS rules publications.

Both positions can co-exist in reality, however Oldie has moved outside his truthful statement by insinuating that mention in his booklet equates to a POE and that his booklet has the force of a rules publication.

Either Oldie doesn't know what a POE is, or mistakenly believes that any mention of anything in any booklet with the NFHS logo is a POE.

Until Oldie understands that POE is a specific term with a specific meaning this conversation is going nowhere.

But, before I give up completely, let me recheck...

Giddyap.....c'mon....Giddyap dammit.....

Nope. It's dead.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Can I ask you a question because I honestly want to know the answer. I'm not trying to draw you into a debate.

Do you own and/or regularly study the approved NFHS rules book? Also, have you ever officiated a high school game played under the direction of NFHS rules?

He doesn't own the rule book/case book, etc...he admitted that earlier this year. Whether he has officiated a high school game under NFHS guidelines is debatable - he will probably say he has, but his posts, quotes from so-called wise men, and ideas for handling situations that come up all lead intelligent people to believe he has not and never will...

[Adam]

DC Ref, pretty much tells you everything you need to know.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Okay, what we have here is two parties stating the truth.

1. Oldie has a booklet put out by NASO/Referee that carries and endorsement by NFHS on the cover. In this booklet there is some mention of the "stop sign."

2. J-R accurately states that the "stop sign" has never been a POE and has not been included in the NFHS rules publications.

Both positions can co-exist in reality, however Oldie has moved outside his truthful statement by insinuating that mention in his booklet equates to a POE and that his booklet has the force of a rules publication.

Either Oldie doesn't know what a POE is, or mistakenly believes that any mention of anything in any booklet with the NFHS logo is a POE.

Until Oldie understands that POE is a specific term with a specific meaning this conversation is going nowhere.

But, before I give up completely, let me recheck...

Giddyap.....c'mon....Giddyap dammit.....Nope. It's dead.

Wrong again, but maybe your horse is dead. Right at the top of the page, it says POE. I have not changed my position and it is not worth debating any further. I have stated exactly what I meant. These topics are there as an aid, not an absolute. It is written in an official NFHS document. Just because you and JR don't have a copy makes me wrong or you right. What you are debating is whether or not I'm credible. I am not going to debate that with you or anyone else. I do not care what you think about me because I do not have to work with any of you. If you want to debate the topic, I will defend my position until my death. If you want to debate if I am a HS official or not, then that has no bearing whatsoever on the topic. It is a weak and defeated man's attempt to try and change the subject. Weaker, lesser men will fall prey to such a tactic.

[GarthB]

[BillyMac]

1) Let's assume that there really was a NASO/Referee Preseason Basketball Guide that suggests that officials may use a visual warning to indicate to the coach that "enough is enough".

2) Let's assume that this NASO/Referee Preseason Basketball Guide is officially sanctioned by the NFHS because it carries the NFHS logo.

3) Let's assume that a Point of Emphasis in the NASO/Referee Preseason Basketball Guide sanctioned by the NFHS does not have the same meaning as a Point Of Emphasis in the NFHS Rule Book.

Assuming these three things, has the NFHS suggested that officials may use a visual warning to indicate to the coach that "enough is enough"?

Old School: Is there any way you could get to a scanner, scan the article about the visual warning from the NASO/Referee Preseason Basketball Guide, and post it as a thread on the Forum web site? I would really be interested in seeing it.

[Old School]

I will do that. I will have to make a special trip to Kinko's or somewhere like this to get it done. I might add that there is some excellent information in these newsletters, especially rule changes for the upcoming season. Going back and reviewing some of these newsletters, I do recall there was one article that had the answer to a test question. This was the only place I could find it.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Old School: Is there any way you could get to a scanner, scan the article about the visual warning from the NASO/Referee Preseason Basketball Guide, and post it as a thread on the Forum web site? I would really be interested in seeing it.

I have the pages scanned but they are too big to post here. Any suggestions...???

[Junker]

I'll finally get in here with my $.02, not that too many people care. I think the stop sign has a time and place where it is useful. I agree that too often coaches think that they get a warning before a T. This is not always the case. I was taught to use the stop sign loud and proud. We were told that if a coach was getting out of line to take a step back, put up the hand and firmly say, "that's enough coach". The guy that taught me likes this because it is a good, firm visual statement that the coach has said too much. Then people know the T is coming. I've used the stop sign on occasion, and there are many occasions where it isn't helpful. As with much of what we do there are no absolutes. If you feel it will work for you to help you out of a situation, go ahead and use it. Just never give more than one stop sign (oops, I guess I'm giving an absolute that I just said doesn't exsist in what we do).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I have the pages scanned but they are too big to post here. Any suggestions...???

Just one. Let it rest. Otherwise, there's probably a web site somewhere that will host something like this. Something like a youtube for pdf documents.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Old School

I have the pages scanned but they are too big to post here. Any suggestions...???

E-mail it to me as an attachment if you can and I should be able to edit the size.