Flipping over

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

A1 has the ball after a rebound and is holding it with both hands about chest-high. B1 approaches A1 from behind, reaches over A1's right shoulder with his right hand and secures his hand under the ball. A1 bends over and, with B1's hand locked in between the ball and A1's shoulder, flips B1 over his back.

Assuming there's incidental contact with B1 reaching over the shoulder, what do you call?

Both players had hand(s) on the ball. A tried to get the ball away, but was unable to do so without "excessive force". What's the call?

[ChrisSportsFan]

Reach?
Over the back?

I've either got a held ball or a holding foul.
That would be one to see. Yes, that would be one to see.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Both players had hand(s) on the ball. A tried to get the ball away, but was unable to do so without "excessive force". What's the call?

In this situation, though, A1 flipped over B1 AS SOON AS his hand became lodged under the ball. This is a borderline held ball, but IMO, A1 created unneccessary and quite possibly dangerous physical contact. To me, it's akin to a player pushing another player during a jump ball to try and get the ball away. Sure, by definition a jump ball has occured, but before you can blow the whistle for the jump ball, some serious physical contact occurs.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by fiasco

This is a borderline held ball, but IMO, A1 created unneccessary and quite possibly dangerous physical contact. To me, it's akin to a player pushing another player during a jump ball to try and get the ball away.

I don't see how you can put the responsibility on A1 for "creating" the contact here. A1 is certainly within his rights to bend over to keep B1 from stealing the ball. Much in the same way a player is allowed to rotate his hips while his elbows rotate with his body to keep defenders away. To me, B1 put himself at risk by reaching over the shoulder to attempt to steal the ball and of contact results from that, it is B1's responsibility from that point.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by fiasco

In this situation, though, A1 flipped over B1 AS SOON AS his hand became lodged under the ball. This is a borderline held ball, but IMO, A1 created unneccessary and quite possibly dangerous physical contact. To me, it's akin to a player pushing another player during a jump ball to try and get the ball away. Sure, by definition a jump ball has occured, but before you can blow the whistle for the jump ball, some serious physical contact occurs.

please tell me you mean B1 created the contact....all A1 did was move the ball....it was B1 who put themselves in a bad spot...I cannont envision a foul on A1, it is hard to envision calling a held ball, but I can't say it wouldn't happen, most likely a foul on B1 in my opinion

[Splute]

I cant imagine this just being "incidental" contact if B1 is coming over the back. If there is contact on any part of A1 other than the hand holding the ball, it is a violation on B1. Correct?