Flipping over
 

A1 has the ball after a rebound and is holding it with both hands about chest-high. B1 approaches A1 from behind, reaches over A1's right shoulder with his right hand and secures his hand under the ball. A1 bends over and, with B1's hand locked in between the ball and A1's shoulder, flips B1 over his back.

Assuming there's incidental contact with B1 reaching over the shoulder, what do you call?

I have a hard time picturing the "reach over" without the commission of a foul. What, did the defender have a rubber arm?:eek:

You got a REACH on B1, then an OVER THE BACK on B1.:D

WOW! Did that really happen?

Have to see it but I've seen ugly legal dribbles, would that be considered an ugly held ball? (unless A1's actions were flagrant)

I have never called a "Reach or Over the Back" foul. Until there is contact instigated by the defenders action, I got no call or a held ball.

The ball is high enough that B1 can reach over A1's shoulder without really causing any significant contact.

I'm having a discussion with a friend regarding this situation, so I didn't see it, but trying to describe it as he did.

Both players had hand(s) on the ball. A tried to get the ball away, but was unable to do so without "excessive force". What's the call?

Reach?
Over the back?

I've either got a held ball or a holding foul.
That would be one to see. Yes, that would be one to see.

In this situation, though, A1 flipped over B1 AS SOON AS his hand became lodged under the ball. This is a borderline held ball, but IMO, A1 created unneccessary and quite possibly dangerous physical contact. To me, it's akin to a player pushing another player during a jump ball to try and get the ball away. Sure, by definition a jump ball has occured, but before you can blow the whistle for the jump ball, some serious physical contact occurs.

I don't see how you can put the responsibility on A1 for "creating" the contact here. A1 is certainly within his rights to bend over to keep B1 from stealing the ball. Much in the same way a player is allowed to rotate his hips while his elbows rotate with his body to keep defenders away. To me, B1 put himself at risk by reaching over the shoulder to attempt to steal the ball and of contact results from that, it is B1's responsibility from that point.

please tell me you mean B1 created the contact....all A1 did was move the ball....it was B1 who put themselves in a bad spot...I cannont envision a foul on A1, it is hard to envision calling a held ball, but I can't say it wouldn't happen, most likely a foul on B1 in my opinion

I cant imagine this just being "incidental" contact if B1 is coming over the back. If there is contact on any part of A1 other than the hand holding the ball, it is a violation on B1. Correct?

Held ball.

We had a few ugly looking held balls last night, but there were no fouls on the play.

Do you really have a held ball if the Defender only has one hand on the ball?

Particularly if its with one hand and the arm is between the ball and the body. How is this accomplished with out creating illegal contact?

[quote=BadNewsRef]Held ball.

As Jurassic would say:

Rule 4 section 25 Held Ball
A held ball occurs when:
Art 1: Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness.

well maybe not as good as JR; he is always sharp on the rules:)