Make the dam call!!!

[CLH]

Just gonna vent for a second. Me and my partner tonight, (both top tier varsity guys in our chapter), covering a last minute jr high game tonight. Home team has bad number in the book, calls me over, easy T right? My partner says man just change it and lets go they're jr high boys, don't whack em. To which I reply, now what am i gonna tell the visiting coach when he doesn't his shots and the ball, especially if this comes down to a 2 point game.

Visitors shoot 2, make one.

Well guess what the final score is, Home 35-Visitors 36. Why are officials scared to death the call a damn tecnical, its as common as a travel. Just make the damn call!

CLH
ok, done venting.

[mick]

Originally Posted by CLH

Just gonna vent for a second. Me and my partner tonight, (both top tier varsity guys in our chapter), covering a last minute jr high game tonight. Home team has bad number in the book, calls me over, easy T right? My partner says man just change it and lets go they're jr high boys, don't whack em. To which I reply, now what am i gonna tell the visiting coach when he doesn't his shots and the ball, especially if this comes down to a 2 point game.

Visitors shoot 2, make one.

Well guess what the final score is, Home 35-Visitors 36. Why are officials scared to death the call a damn tecnical, its as common as a travel. Just make the damn call!

CLH
ok, done venting.

Good call, CLH !

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CLH

Well guess what the final score is, Home 35-Visitors 36. Why are officials scared to death the call a damn tecnical, its as common as a travel. Just make the damn call!

I will give you a simple answer, "it is not the same." I know we like to talk about how it is, but it is not. I can speak for myself on this. I do feel that I want a technical to be just as obvious as a T. Whether we like it or not, we are not scrutinized as much for a T. Just read other posts where people are going to write letters about an official that gave a T.

Peace

[tnzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I will give you a simple answer, "it is not the same." I know we like to talk about how it is, but it is not. I can speak for myself on this. I do feel that I want a technical to be just as obvious as a T. Whether we like it or not, we are not scrutinized as much for a T. Just read other posts where people are going to write letters about an official that gave a T.

Peace

I agree, no T. It's different. JMO

[ranjo]

SECTION 1 TEAM TECHNICAL
A team shall not:
ART. 1 . . . Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time.

I agree all the names and numbers should be in the book correctly and penalized when discovered to be incorrect. But what about the second part of the rule that says the home book should be ready at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time. If I followed that rule on the junior varsity circuit, we would be starting about 50% of the games with a T. Lots of games follow other games with 15 minute intervals and the books don't get together in time to copy everything within the allowed time frame.

How many of you strickly enforce that rule? If you don't, I don't see how you can enforce the first part of the rule if the book can be corrected prior to the game starting.

I have been known to stop the clock before the 10 minute mark to prevent some of this stuff from happening. I know the rule, but if I can prevent a book keeping error up front, I will.

[Ref Daddy]

Originally Posted by CLH

Just gonna vent for a second. Me and my partner tonight, (both top tier varsity guys in our chapter), covering a last minute jr high game tonight. Home team has bad number in the book, calls me over, easy T right? My partner says man just change it and lets go they're jr high boys, don't whack em. To which I reply, now what am i gonna tell the visiting coach when he doesn't his shots and the ball, especially if this comes down to a 2 point game.

Visitors shoot 2, make one.

Well guess what the final score is, Home 35-Visitors 36. Why are officials scared to death the call a damn tecnical, its as common as a travel. Just make the damn call!

CLH
ok, done venting.

Yes they won by one point .... but what about the other 35 that were scored?

Its not ALL about the T.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by Ref Daddy

Yes they won by one point .... but what about the other 35 that were scored?

Its not ALL about the T.

Ok, I'm not trying to be a jerk or argue, but comments like that drive me nuts. To me, they are cop outs for the ones among us that don't want to admit we missed a call or had a bad game. I'll be the first one to say that officials don't decide games, but we definetly can have a huge affect on them, which is why our common motto is "Get the call right."

CLH

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CLH

Ok, I'm not trying to be a jerk or argue, but comments like that drive me nuts. To me, they are cop outs for the ones among us that don't want to admit we missed a call or had a bad game. I'll be the first one to say that officials don't decide games, but we definetly can have a huge affect on them, which is why our common motto is "Get the call right."

CLH

It also depends on why the mistake was made. Was the name wrong because the information was given was not correct or was this a mistake by the bookkeeper that put the wrong information in? If that is the case I agree with you. But why did you cave in? If you felt that strongly about it, you should have administered the T. Getting mad here is not going to change that fact.

Peace

[SMEngmann]

Rut, I think you're misinterpreting what CLH is saying. CLH is saying that he called the T when the predominant majority of officials would've just let it slide, so I think the two of you are in agreement. CLH took some issue with RefDaddy's comment because he feels that his comment was a cop out, or a rationalization of mistakes by officials, where CLH feels that we shouldn't rationalize, just strive to get calls right and admit mistakes when we make them. Just clearing that up

As for the book, I will have a coach or assistant coach initial that everything is correct when I check the book so that if this situation arises I don't have to be a detective or rationalize why mistakes are made. I had a situation in a playoff game last year where a player from the visiting team had to be added to the book late and we started the game with FTs, and the coach couldn't argue because it was his mistake for not verifying the info.

[Nevadaref]

My attitude is that we should not be afraid to make the correct call whether that be a technical foul, intentional foul, or a travel. Officiating is about courage.

Do it right and don't worry about it. Good job, CLH.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

Rut, I think you're misinterpreting what CLH is saying. CLH is saying that he called the T when the predominant majority of officials would've just let it slide, so I think the two of you are in agreement. CLH took some issue with RefDaddy's comment because he feels that his comment was a cop out, or a rationalization of mistakes by officials, where CLH feels that we shouldn't rationalize, just strive to get calls right and admit mistakes when we make them. Just clearing that up

I see that he called the T, but so what. He made the right call. Why does it matter that his partner wanted to not call the T?

Also I think it is a generalization to say that officials are afraid to make this call. I have never had that discussion with a partner that I can ever think of about that kind of situation. I hope he has more evidence than just one experience. I have known many officials that have handed out this T, I know I have twice already this year and the only debate I had was with the coach (he blamed me for the mistake thinking I was supposed to catch his mistake).

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

As for the book, I will have a coach or assistant coach initial that everything is correct when I check the book so that if this situation arises I don't have to be a detective or rationalize why mistakes are made. I had a situation in a playoff game last year where a player from the visiting team had to be added to the book late and we started the game with FTs, and the coach couldn't argue because it was his mistake for not verifying the info.[/QUOTE]

SM,

If the mistake is because of transcription or clerical error, then having this coach initialize the book does not make it his/her mistake. As Rut said, look at the reason for the mistake. Coaches are busy immediately before a game and they have complied by submitting a correct roster or starting lineup. Now, you want them to verify someone else's work right before the game.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by CLH

Just gonna vent for a second. Me and my partner tonight, (both top tier varsity guys in our chapter), covering a last minute jr high game tonight. Home team has bad number in the book, calls me over, easy T right? My partner says man just change it and lets go they're jr high boys, don't whack em.
CLH
ok, done venting.

Well go ahead and have at me CLH, but I might have suggested the same thing as your partner for a junior high game.

Half the time when I help out with junior high games, the coach is some woodshop teacher that doesn't even know the game. I might not feeling like punishing the kids with an administrative T. Heck, I might just add the name to the book myself and have it be my dirty little secret. It all depends.

[chartrusepengui]

Problem is - then the woodshop teacher who knows nothing - still is a woodshop teacher who knows nothing.

[Rich]

I'm just going to be completely honest:

I would fix it and move on regardless of the other coach's reaction.

I just noticed zebraman's post: What he said.