Make the dam call!!!

[CLH]

Just gonna vent for a second. Me and my partner tonight, (both top tier varsity guys in our chapter), covering a last minute jr high game tonight. Home team has bad number in the book, calls me over, easy T right? My partner says man just change it and lets go they're jr high boys, don't whack em. To which I reply, now what am i gonna tell the visiting coach when he doesn't his shots and the ball, especially if this comes down to a 2 point game.

Visitors shoot 2, make one.

Well guess what the final score is, Home 35-Visitors 36. Why are officials scared to death the call a damn tecnical, its as common as a travel. Just make the damn call!

CLH
ok, done venting.

[mick]

Originally Posted by CLH

Just gonna vent for a second. Me and my partner tonight, (both top tier varsity guys in our chapter), covering a last minute jr high game tonight. Home team has bad number in the book, calls me over, easy T right? My partner says man just change it and lets go they're jr high boys, don't whack em. To which I reply, now what am i gonna tell the visiting coach when he doesn't his shots and the ball, especially if this comes down to a 2 point game.

Visitors shoot 2, make one.

Well guess what the final score is, Home 35-Visitors 36. Why are officials scared to death the call a damn tecnical, its as common as a travel. Just make the damn call!

CLH
ok, done venting.

Good call, CLH !

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CLH

Well guess what the final score is, Home 35-Visitors 36. Why are officials scared to death the call a damn tecnical, its as common as a travel. Just make the damn call!

I will give you a simple answer, "it is not the same." I know we like to talk about how it is, but it is not. I can speak for myself on this. I do feel that I want a technical to be just as obvious as a T. Whether we like it or not, we are not scrutinized as much for a T. Just read other posts where people are going to write letters about an official that gave a T.

Peace

[Ref Daddy]

Originally Posted by CLH

Just gonna vent for a second. Me and my partner tonight, (both top tier varsity guys in our chapter), covering a last minute jr high game tonight. Home team has bad number in the book, calls me over, easy T right? My partner says man just change it and lets go they're jr high boys, don't whack em. To which I reply, now what am i gonna tell the visiting coach when he doesn't his shots and the ball, especially if this comes down to a 2 point game.

Visitors shoot 2, make one.

Well guess what the final score is, Home 35-Visitors 36. Why are officials scared to death the call a damn tecnical, its as common as a travel. Just make the damn call!

CLH
ok, done venting.

Yes they won by one point .... but what about the other 35 that were scored?

Its not ALL about the T.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by Ref Daddy

Yes they won by one point .... but what about the other 35 that were scored?

Its not ALL about the T.

Ok, I'm not trying to be a jerk or argue, but comments like that drive me nuts. To me, they are cop outs for the ones among us that don't want to admit we missed a call or had a bad game. I'll be the first one to say that officials don't decide games, but we definetly can have a huge affect on them, which is why our common motto is "Get the call right."

CLH

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CLH

Ok, I'm not trying to be a jerk or argue, but comments like that drive me nuts. To me, they are cop outs for the ones among us that don't want to admit we missed a call or had a bad game. I'll be the first one to say that officials don't decide games, but we definetly can have a huge affect on them, which is why our common motto is "Get the call right."

CLH

It also depends on why the mistake was made. Was the name wrong because the information was given was not correct or was this a mistake by the bookkeeper that put the wrong information in? If that is the case I agree with you. But why did you cave in? If you felt that strongly about it, you should have administered the T. Getting mad here is not going to change that fact.

Peace

[SMEngmann]

Rut, I think you're misinterpreting what CLH is saying. CLH is saying that he called the T when the predominant majority of officials would've just let it slide, so I think the two of you are in agreement. CLH took some issue with RefDaddy's comment because he feels that his comment was a cop out, or a rationalization of mistakes by officials, where CLH feels that we shouldn't rationalize, just strive to get calls right and admit mistakes when we make them. Just clearing that up

As for the book, I will have a coach or assistant coach initial that everything is correct when I check the book so that if this situation arises I don't have to be a detective or rationalize why mistakes are made. I had a situation in a playoff game last year where a player from the visiting team had to be added to the book late and we started the game with FTs, and the coach couldn't argue because it was his mistake for not verifying the info.

[Nevadaref]

My attitude is that we should not be afraid to make the correct call whether that be a technical foul, intentional foul, or a travel. Officiating is about courage.

Do it right and don't worry about it. Good job, CLH.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

Rut, I think you're misinterpreting what CLH is saying. CLH is saying that he called the T when the predominant majority of officials would've just let it slide, so I think the two of you are in agreement. CLH took some issue with RefDaddy's comment because he feels that his comment was a cop out, or a rationalization of mistakes by officials, where CLH feels that we shouldn't rationalize, just strive to get calls right and admit mistakes when we make them. Just clearing that up

I see that he called the T, but so what. He made the right call. Why does it matter that his partner wanted to not call the T?

Also I think it is a generalization to say that officials are afraid to make this call. I have never had that discussion with a partner that I can ever think of about that kind of situation. I hope he has more evidence than just one experience. I have known many officials that have handed out this T, I know I have twice already this year and the only debate I had was with the coach (he blamed me for the mistake thinking I was supposed to catch his mistake).

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

As for the book, I will have a coach or assistant coach initial that everything is correct when I check the book so that if this situation arises I don't have to be a detective or rationalize why mistakes are made. I had a situation in a playoff game last year where a player from the visiting team had to be added to the book late and we started the game with FTs, and the coach couldn't argue because it was his mistake for not verifying the info.[/QUOTE]

SM,

If the mistake is because of transcription or clerical error, then having this coach initialize the book does not make it his/her mistake. As Rut said, look at the reason for the mistake. Coaches are busy immediately before a game and they have complied by submitting a correct roster or starting lineup. Now, you want them to verify someone else's work right before the game.

[chartrusepengui]

If the mistake is because of transcription or clerical error, then having this coach initialize the book does not make it his/her mistake. As Rut said, look at the reason for the mistake. Coaches are busy immediately before a game and they have complied by submitting a correct roster or starting lineup. Now, you want them to verify someone else's work right before the game.[/QUOTE]


yes - it is the coaches mistake. He/she ultimately responsible for making sure correct info is in the book. If they don't want to take the time from their "busy pregame schedule" to check and verify that the info is correct - it is their fault when a T occurs. If they check and find a mistake then they can chastise whoever was responsible - and there will be no need for a T. I was a varsity coach for many years as well as an official for 23 years so I understand both sides of this issue. It does not take that long to look in a book and see if everything is correct. I have not had a coach initial as in previous posts - but starting tonight I will. GREAT idea!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

My attitude is that we should not be afraid to make the correct call whether that be a technical foul, intentional foul, or a travel. Officiating is about courage.

Do it right and don't worry about it. Good job, CLH.

I concur on that statement totally!!!!!!

[Big2Cat]

From my read, I don't think RefDaddy was being condescending or trying to cop out from the T. He was saying the T was only 1 point. The Visitors still had to score 35 other points to win. So while the final difference was 1 point, you can't specifically say the 1 point from the T made the difference. The difference could have been the unguarded player who made the wide open layup.

Yeah, the T was right. But sometimes we don't realize that some junior high schools have coaches thrown into a position because they need a body and many times are just trying to learn to coach and make mistakes with their book. It doesn't hurt to have a graceful spirit and point out mistakes without penalizing. As a junior high coach and basketball official, I wouldn't be upset if the other team were not given a T because the book was wrong. It is not all about winning at this level.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

yes - it is the coaches mistake. He/she ultimately responsible for making sure correct info is in the book.

Not true. The rule states something like "... provide the scorer with the names and numbers of the roster and 5 starters...."

It states nothing about "ensure the correct information is in the book."

[chartrusepengui]

Fine - but if I'm the coach - it's my T - administrative or not and it hurts the team i am coaching therefore - if I take my job seriously - its my responsibility.