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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 09, 2007, 04:28pm
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good T -- no seat belt as that is not indirect or direct to coach and ball to other team at half court after free throws.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 09, 2007, 04:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Having him check might be a nice preventative measure but it in no way puts the onus on him to ensure that it is correct. The rules very clearly say that the team only has to provide the info by 10 minutes. Anything else is a clerical error.

I will NEVER give a T for an error in the book when the team provided it properly. It doesn't matter if you had the coach recite every entry in the book 10 times before initializing the book. To call a T in this situation is simply making up your own rules...and in a way that doesn't make anything better (and may make it worse).

It is complete NONSENSE to do anything else.
That should be the end of the argument because you can't say it any plainer or be any more correct as to how an official should properly handle these situations according to the rules.

However.......
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 09, 2007, 05:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
good T -- no seat belt as that is not indirect or direct to coach and ball to other team at half court after free throws.
...also, T foul counts toward the bonus. You passed the test deecee!
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 10, 2007, 03:41pm
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Ten Minutes - Rule Ten

Ranjo:

Where does it say that the "home book should be ready at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time". I can't find that language in Rule 10.

If both teams supply the correct names, numbers, and starters previous to the ten minute mark, then they have complied with the Rule 10. If it takes the home and visiting scorekeepers nine minutes to copy that information into both books, then I don't see any reason for a technical foul.

Am I reading the rule incorrectly?
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 10, 2007, 03:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
Ranjo:

Where does it say that the "home book should be ready at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time". I can't find that language in Rule 10.

If both teams supply the correct names, numbers, and starters previous to the ten minute mark, then they have complied with the Rule 10. If it takes the home and visiting scorekeepers nine minutes to copy that information into both books, then I don't see any reason for a technical foul.

Am I reading the rule incorrectly?
NO.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Sat Feb 10, 2007 at 07:58pm.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 10, 2007, 07:27pm
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Citation Please

Jurassic Referee:

Please give a rule citation for "the home book should be ready at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time". The only reference that I can find regarding this situation is in Rule 10, that both teams supply the correct names, numbers, and starters previous to the ten minute mark. If both coaches handed to both the home and visiting scorekeepers, and possibly a neutral scorekeeper, as in a state tournament game, a piece of paper with the correct names and numbers of their squad and their starters at the 11 minute mark, I would have a tough time invoking Rule 10, and giving a technical foul, if the table personnel aren't finished copying this information into the scorebooks at the 6 minute mark. In this specific situation, to whom would you give the technical foul? What if the visiting scorekeeper copied from the pieces of paper first and finished at the 10 minute mark and then gave the papers to the home scorkeeper, who didn't finsh copying the information into his or her book until the 8 minute mark?

Please respond with one of your well respected rule book or case book citations.

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Feb 10, 2007 at 07:51pm.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 10, 2007, 08:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
Jurassic Referee:

Please give a rule citation for "the home book should be ready at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time". The only reference that I can find regarding this situation is in Rule 10, that both teams supply the correct names, numbers, and starters previous to the ten minute mark. If both coaches handed to both the home and visiting scorekeepers, and possibly a neutral scorekeeper, as in a state tournament game, a piece of paper with the correct names and numbers of their squad and their starters at the 11 minute mark, I would have a tough time invoking Rule 10, and giving a technical foul, if the table personnel aren't finished copying this information into the scorebooks at the 6 minute mark. In this specific situation, to whom would you give the technical foul? What if the visiting scorekeeper copied from the pieces of paper first and finished at the 10 minute mark and then gave the papers to the home scorkeeper, who didn't finsh copying the information into his or her book until the 8 minute mark?

Please respond with one of your well respected rule book or case book citations.
Billy, my well-respected response is that I completely screwed up and read the last sentence of your first post incorrectly. My apologies. You were correct, and I meant to agree with you from the git-go. I went back and changed my response to reflect that.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2007, 09:22am
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
Ranjo:

Where does it say that the "home book should be ready at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time". I can't find that language in Rule 10.

If both teams supply the correct names, numbers, and starters previous to the ten minute mark, then they have complied with the Rule 10. If it takes the home and visiting scorekeepers nine minutes to copy that information into both books, then I don't see any reason for a technical foul.

Am I reading the rule incorrectly?
BillyMac -

I got out the rule book and after reading the language in Rule 10, (CLICK) a light came on. I consider myself a pretty good rules person, but I have mis-read this rule for years. Thanks for your "enlightenment"
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2007, 10:30am
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In the same Fresh/JV double ehader I posted about in another thread we had a pregame issue. The Freshman Game was between two "innercity" teams that are VERY bitter rivals. The Freshman game immediately followed a Frosh/JV/Varsity triple header between the same two school only on the girls side. The police always clear the gym and disperse the crowd before allowing the spectators in for the boys triple header. The girls game had OT so they were running very late. There was a lot of confusion between games, and in the rush to catch up game management started the warmup clock at 11:00!!!

Neither book was ready at 10:00 when I went to the table. No starters. In fact, the official scorer was outside helping with crowd control. I checked the game ball, made sure the AP Arrow worked, told the visiting scorer (who was still filling out her book ) that I would sign the book before the tip and went back to watching the warmups. I could've been really evil and assessed a double T and made both coaches have a seatbelt, but that would've been heavy-handed. Just the beginning of an adventurous evening.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2007, 10:40am
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignats75
Neither book was ready at 10:00 when I went to the table. No starters. ... I could've been really evil and assessed a double T and made both coaches have a seatbelt, but that would've been heavy-handed. Just the beginning of an adventurous evening.
I couldn't have done that.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2007, 07:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignats75
Neither book was ready at 10:00 when I went to the table. No starters. ... I could've been really evil and assessed a double T and made both coaches have a seatbelt, but that would've been heavy-handed. Just the beginning of an adventurous evening.
Mick,
You failed to point out this error as well.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2007, 11:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Mick,
You failed to point out this error as well.
I said couldn't, not shouldn't.
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