charge or not

[Ref in PA]

I had this exact play last night. NCAAM JV game. A1 drove the base line and B1 was set up, not exactly under the basket but close enough. A1 ran B1 over and I called the charge. Coach A did not like the call, but it did not change my mind. The offensive player needs to recognize the positioning of the defenders and adjust accordingly.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

I had this exact play last night. NCAAM JV game. A1 drove the base line and B1 was set up, not exactly under the basket but close enough. A1 ran B1 over and I called the charge. Coach A did not like the call, but it did not change my mind. The offensive player needs to recognize the positioning of the defenders and adjust accordingly.

Funny you say this because I had it last night as well in JV boys game (NCAA rules). In my case the defender moved under the basket after A1 took off for the layup. B1 realized he was not there in time and backed up to give the player room to land, as he landed B1 had some contact with A1 and IMO flopped back on his butt. I had NO CALL on the play as A1 was able to complete his layup and B took himself out of the play. No advantage/disadvantage was my judgement.

[btaylor64]

It is like JRut said. There is no one size fits all. We all need to understand that officiating is not an exact science, but instead it is an art, and depending on whether your art is beautiful or not is in the eye of the assignor you work for.

I personally call a block or no call a play when a secondary defender comes in and attempts to take a charge underneath the basket. If it is a primary defender then I just see the play through. Just to add something to this. I will call an offensive foul on an offensive player being defended by a secondary defender if the offensive player does something overt (i.e., leading with the foot or wiping out with the off hand, etc.)

People who are rule book officials are trying to make this a science and hence we would just be better off having robots referee the game. As an art there is room for human understanding and conception.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

1) I personally call a block or no call a play when a secondary defender comes in and attempts to take a charge underneath the basket. If it is a primary defender then I just see the play through.

2) People who are rule book officials are trying to make this a science and hence we would just be better off having robots referee the game. As an art there is room for human understanding and conception.

1) I personally believe that is absolutely terrible advice unless you're working in the NBA or doing a NCAA Womens college game. And believe me, Mr. Taylor is not working in the NBA and I doubt very much that he's doing Womens college games either, seeing that he had never officiated a high school game at any level in his life before this season started. What he is advocating goes not only goes completely against the direction of both the NFHS and NCAA Mens rule books, but it also goes against the way that supervisors and evaluators want the play called.

2) What gives you the right to make statements like that? You don't have the officiating experience to judge anybody, let alone judge experienced high school and college officials. All you're doing is trying to regurgitate something that you heard at one of your Jr. NBA/rec league games. That's nothing but rec league, Old School talk. Rule book officials are officials that know the rules. Well, you've certainly proved with your previous posts that you're not a rulebook official. If you would like to contest that, I'll be glad to go back and re-post some of your greatest hits.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) I personally believe that is absolutely terrible advice unless you're working in the NBA or doing a NCAA Womens college game. And believe me, Mr. Taylor is not working in the NBA and I doubt very much that he's doing Womens college games either, seeing that he had never officiated a high school game at any level in his life before this season started. What he is advocating goes not only goes completely against the direction of both the NFHS and NCAA Mens rule books, but it also goes against the way that supervisors and evaluators want the play called.

2) What gives you the right to make statements like that? You don't have the officiating experience to judge anybody, let alone judge experienced high school and college officials. All you're doing is trying to regurgitate something that you heard at one of your Jr. NBA/rec league games. That's nothing but rec league, Old School talk. Rule book officials are officials that know the rules. Well, you've certainly proved with your previous posts that you're not a rulebook official. If you would like to contest that, I'll be glad to go back and re-post some of your greatest hits.

You're exactly right JR, I am not a rule book ref nor do I hope and have aspirations of being one. Now do I not know the rules? No. I know them quite well. I am a true believer in having rules knowledge, but there is a difference in knowing the rules and knowing what they are and the purpose that they are there to serve.

Jurassic, don't act like you know what I do, where I've been or what I have done. You know maybe a quarter of what I've done or where I've been. I don't attack you, do I? I don't expect you to attack me. All the advice that I give on here has been given to me by the highest ranking officials in the game today, so if there are people on here who want to move up to the college or higher level, they should probably heed this as being pretty dang true. I'll tell you right now I could name two different HS assingors who would want this play called different ways. One would want the block under the basket and the other would want the offensive foul. It just depends on who the assignor is and where they are coming from. The first assignor I mentioned is a D1 official and the other has worked HS all his life. That is the difference and that is ok, I understand where both are coming from.

What JR, did #2 sound too good that it couldn't have come out of a 20 something yr. olds mouth? As stupid and "regurgitated" as it sounds these are the truths of the game today and if people want to work higher level ball then they will understand and adapt. I've had to because of some of things, such as this play.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

What JR, did #2 sound too good that it couldn't have come out of a 20 something yr. olds mouth?

Yup, especially a 20 something yr. old that had never done high school game at any level in his life before this year. And as for that working college nonsense, you don't know enough about NCAA rules or mechanics to work at that level.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...877#post334877

Methinks that maybe doing some rec league games and going to a camp really doesn't make you the expert that you try to portray.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup, especially a 20 something yr. old that had never done high school game at any level in his life before this year. And as for that working college nonsense, you don't know enough about NCAA rules or mechanics to work at that level.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...877#post334877

Methinks that maybe doing some rec league games and going to a camp really doesn't make you the expert that you try to portray.

Once again, you have no idea what I have done or where I have been. I did HS games before, and a ton of them at that, but I had just never reffed a regular season one until this year.