Very well officiated D-I game last night

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I will put the ball pretty much it went out...

I would like to make a humble suggestion: be consistent with what you say you will do. The quote above is a contradiction to what you said earlier.

I have never said you should put the ball in the exact spot, to the inch, where it want out. I say the ball should be put into play at the approximate spot where it went out.

I guess you can't say you have never had this conversation with another official, college or high school, because now you have. I too have never had this conversation, at least not at this length, with another official because it has never been necessary. Like I said earlier, I would bet money you put the ball in the (approximate) spot where it went out or else someone else would have said something to you about it.

I too don't officiate on this board and I don't think anything in this series of posts is so far-fetched to indicate otherwise. This is a no-brainer. There are so many other things to think about during a game, I don't have time to use something random to determine where I'm going to put the ball back into play. BTW, you have yet to say what determines where you put the ball into play. I don't buy the whole chearleader/fan thing. Saying a chearleader would be in the way and determine where the ball goes into play is weak. Since we don't officiate on this board, this should be something you have done thousands of times. The ball goes out of bounds at spot X and you decide to put the ball into play at spot Y, what determines this? If it is all the way in the corner, I can understand. If it is in the lane area, I can understand. Other than that, please tell me what determines why you wouldn't put the ball into play at the approximate location where it went out. Seems like I've asked you that question about 100 times and have yet to receive a simple answer.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

In the real world I have never had this conversation with anyone, ever including Bob who I have worked with several times. I have never had him say one thing to me about this in pre-game or in basic conversation during meetings. I have never had anyone say this to me in the many camps I attend and I go to at least 5 a year and have had many D1 and higher level officials evaluate me at those camps.

Really??? Well, I've personally heard one of the Big Ten officials you list as someone you consider a very good official say it in camps he runs and in the preseason clinics he holds for the officials who work for him. I've heard plenty of officials, including D1 officials I have personally worked with, talk about putting the ball in play at the correct throw-in spot. I have never heard any official say to put the ball in play at an arbitrary spot somewhere near where the ball went OOB.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I would like to make a humble suggestion: be consistent with what you say you will do. The quote above is a contradiction to what you said earlier.

I have never said you should put the ball in the exact spot, to the inch, where it want out. I say the ball should be put into play at the approximate spot where it went out.

I think I am very consistent in what I have said. "Approximate" means different things to different people. That word clearly means something to you different to you than it does to me.

Originally Posted by tomegun

I guess you can't say you have never had this conversation with another official, college or high school, because now you have. I too have never had this conversation, at least not at this length, with another official because it has never been necessary. Like I said earlier, I would bet money you put the ball in the (approximate) spot where it went out or else someone else would have said something to you about it.

When I say never, you know what I mean. If that has to be spelled out to you, well I really do not know what to tell you.

Originally Posted by tomegun

I too don't officiate on this board and I don't think anything in this series of posts is so far-fetched to indicate otherwise. This is a no-brainer. There are so many other things to think about during a game, I don't have time to use something random to determine where I'm going to put the ball back into play. BTW, you have yet to say what determines where you put the ball into play. I don't buy the whole chearleader/fan thing. Saying a chearleader would be in the way and determine where the ball goes into play is weak.

When you have been officiating as long as I have and in other sports for a similar length of period of time, many things are on auto-pilot. I worked in Ottawa, Illinois about a week ago. If anyone on this board has been at that school, there are bleachers just about 5 feet off the end line (approximately ). The cheerleaders stand right next to the court. All night we had to move cheerleaders and I was running into them all night just to try to work from the lead position. This was the case on both ends. It was a huge factor in where I put the ball in on the end line because there was so much congestion.

Originally Posted by tomegun

Since we don't officiate on this board, this should be something you have done thousands of times. The ball goes out of bounds at spot X and you decide to put the ball into play at spot Y, what determines this? If it is all the way in the corner, I can understand. If it is in the lane area, I can understand. Other than that, please tell me what determines why you wouldn't put the ball into play at the approximate location where it went out. Seems like I've asked you that question about 100 times and have yet to receive a simple answer.

Tommy, I have given you an example, after example, after example. If you do not want to accept this, that is OK with me. I have told you why I do things and you took it so literarily that you cannot understand why someone disagrees with you. Maybe you need an explanation for everything to make you feel better, but I do not. I will say that where I can stand is a factor, but it is not THE FACTOR.

Now the main reason I keep responding to you on this, it is fascinating that this really bothers you. It is almost like we brought up the “stop sign” issue. This is really fascinating that you want a detailed explanation of something I could give a damn about either way. I also have to admit this conversation is also entertaining.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Tommy, I have given you an example, after example, after example. If you do not want to accept this, that is OK with me. I have told you why I do things and you took it so literarily that you cannot understand why someone disagrees with you. Maybe you need an explanation for everything to make you feel better, but I do not. I will say that where I can stand is a factor, but it is not THE FACTOR.
Peace

JRut, you rarely, if ever, type a clear-cut example of any scenarios. You purposely communicate as vaguely as possible and then respond with mock amazement that someone continues to ask you questions.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Really??? Well, I've personally heard one of the Big Ten officials you list as someone you consider a very good official say it in camps he runs and in the preseason clinics he holds for the officials who work for him. I've heard plenty of officials, including D1 officials I have personally worked with, talk about putting the ball in play at the correct throw-in spot. I have never heard any official say to put the ball in play at an arbitrary spot somewhere near where the ball went OOB.

I live in Big Ten country. I have also attended a clinic that holds the namesake of a pretty famous Big Ten/Big 12 and Big East official and I have never heard him address this. If you watch Big Monday he is usually working one of the games and he even hired me in his HS conference when he was still assigning it.

Now I say this because I am sure I did the exact same thing in those camps as I do during the season. It does not mean that he never has addressed it with other people, but if he had a problem with where I put the ball or how I put the ball in place, he would be the first to tell me. Now I must be putting the ball in the "approximate spot" to his liking. I think we are splitting hairs here and we are debating over what "is, is" rather than really trying to understand different points of view. And considering that the things that are said to me are little and minor in nature, I would think this would be something he would bring up and openly call me out on. Also he is not the only D1 official working at the camp. So there is more than one person’s opinion at play here.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

JRut, you rarely, if ever, type a clear-cut example of any scenarios. You purposely communicate as vaguely as possible and then respond with mock amazement that someone continues to ask you questions.

I do not feel that the world works in black and white. If you want more specifics, than ask a specific question. You cannot say "what determines....." then get upset when I tell you what determines. If you want to know, "If the ball goes here......do you put it here?" That would be a specific question. There are many factors to anything I do and it would be monotonous to keep point out all the scenarios that may or may not apply to what you want answered.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I live in Big Ten country. I have also attended a clinic that holds the namesake of a pretty famous Big Ten/Big 12 and Big East official and I have never heard him address this. If you watch Big Monday he is usually working one of the games and he even hired me in his HS conference when he was still assigning it.

Big Ten college officiating has nothing to do with Midwest HS officiating. I know a few successful Big Ten officials as well and they live in North Carolina and Maryland.

And one of them (he's usually working on Big Monday also) hires officials to work JuCo games that are played in Maryland. And he is very meticulous about some things you probably think are unimportant. So someone such as myself or Tomegun who have been evaluated and critiqued by this Big Ten official are in turn going to be meticulous about some of these same things that are may not be important to a Midwest HS supervisor.

When in Rome, do as the Romans...or more apropos to this forum: "When in a region, be regional"

Originally Posted by JRut

I do not feel that the world works in black and white. If you want more specifics, than ask a specific question. You cannot say "what determines....." then get upset when I tell you what determines. If you want to know...

I missed the part where someone got upset. Must be a different thread you are talking about. I said "someone continues to asks questions".

[JRutledge]

We obviously are not reading the same post, because I never made any comment about what is taught in this area or what is expected. I only referenced the Big Ten because you reference the Big Ten and a successful official.

What I do on this is personal on this. I do not care what others may or may not do. I must be doing something right because no one is saying anything to me "in this region" for what I am doing. And that is not to say that they do not tell me to change things or make a point of a mechanic I use. This just has not been one of them.

Let me also clarify this, I work for two former Big Ten officials and I talk to a couple D1 officials (one worked the NCAA Tournament last year) on a semi-regular basis.

Peace

[tomegun]

Rut, I think it is safe to say you put the ball in at the approximate spot it went out at and you just want to be argumentative. That is OK. Please don't think for one minute that you are the only one on this board that knows or has been evaluated by someone who works on TV. You said you would put the ball into play anywhere along the endline. The endline is pretty long for this. Go to one of your camps/clinics where one of your D1 officials is evaluating and try this. To be specific because you asked. If the ball goes out on the enline where it intersects the three-point line on the opposite side from where you are, put it inbounds where the endline intersects the three-point line on the side where you are. See how that works out for you. That does meet your criteria of putting the ball into play anywhere along the endline. How about the ball goes out almost in the corner and you put it into play on the endline right beside the paint area. I bet that one will go over well too. Both those scenarios are pretty ridiculous IMO, but they meet your criteria and I'm being specific! You might as well stop bull$h1tting and drop the argument; you know good and d@mn well you wouldn't do that crap in a game. You would put the ball into play at approximately the same spot where it went out.

You are right, this is pretty entertaining. If you want to save face, although I know you will probably say you don't care what people on this board think/say, you should probably start using the old smiley faces in this thread big guy!

[JRutledge]

Aw screw it!!! It really does not matter what I say anyway. Not like it is going to change anything.

Peace