Very well officiated D-I game last night

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Coach (MJT), we aren't talking about allowing you to set up your play. We are talking about putting the ball where it rightfully belongs on the endline instead of just deciding where the ball should be inbounded. BTW, that is exactly what an official would be doing, plus or minus a foot, if they decide where to put the ball in play. Rut, what do you use to determine where you are going to put the ball into play?

I must be missing something in your post. Are you saying that if the ball goes out at a specific spot, I am supposed to put the ball at that spot or I am violating some kind of rule?

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I must be missing something in your post. Are you saying that if the ball goes out at a specific spot, I am supposed to put the ball at that spot or I am violating some kind of rule?

Peace

No, no, no, this doesn't work that way! I asked you at least two questions and you have yet to answer so I will not answer your question.

What determines where you (meaning you, JRut) put the ball into play? Are you saying you would put the ball into play at the approximate spot where it went out or do you mean what you posted and you will put the ball in play anywhere on the endline?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

No, no, no, this doesn't work that way! I asked you at least two questions and you have yet to answer so I will not answer your question.

What determines where you (meaning you, JRut) put the ball into play? Are you saying you would put the ball into play at the approximate spot where it went out or do you mean what you posted and you will put the ball in play anywhere on the endline?

I do not really understand the question. Are you saying I should put the ball out within the length of the ball? If the ball goes out on the end line, I put the ball on the side of the lane that the ball went out on. I do not try to put the ball exactly where it went out or where someone touched the line. I tend to put the ball in a similar spot, but if I do not put it at that spot, so be it.

Now where is your reference that this is wrong? I have attended many camps, worked many games and I have never had a coach or an official get upset over where I put the ball on the end line in my entire career. I do not even know if any coach ever got upset where I put the ball in-bounds if the ball is on the end line.

Peace

[tomegun]

I almost answered that.

Again, what determines where you put the ball into play? Are you saying you put the ball into play at the approximate spot where it went out or do you mean what you posted and you will put the ball in play anywhere on the endline. For instance, if the ball goes out of bounds where the endline intersects with the three-point line, do you/would you put the ball into play on foot outside of where the lane line intersects with the endline? If you put it at approximately the same spot, you could just say so. If you put the ball in anywhere along the endline regardless of where it went out, you could say that too. If it is the latter, I would appreciate it if you could tell me what determines the spot you choose.

I'm going to sleep now. Maybe we can pick this up tomorrow even though it is already tomorrow some places.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I almost answered that.

Again, what determines where you put the ball into play? Are you saying you put the ball into play at the approximate spot where it went out or do you mean what you posted and you will put the ball in play anywhere on the endline.

Until you answer my question (which was first and to clarify what you are asking), not sure I can answer your question. Other than to say if the ball goes out of bounds on the end line, I put the ball on the end line. If it goes out on the side line, I put the ball on the side line.

Originally Posted by tomegun

For instance, if the ball goes out of bounds where the endline intersects with the three-point line, do you/would you put the ball into play on foot outside of where the lane line intersects with the endline?

Not necessarily.

Originally Posted by tomegun

If you put it at approximately the same spot, you could just say so. If you put the ball in anywhere along the endline regardless of where it went out, you could say that too. If it is the latter, I would appreciate it if you could tell me what determines the spot you choose.

What determines the spot? I guess a lot of things. Are you staying in the front court? Is this after a made basket? Where are the cheerleaders? Do I have room on the baseline? Are fans sitting in stands on the end line?

There are a lot of things that may factor, but this is the most I have ever thought about it. If the ball goes out on the end line, I put the ball on the end line. I do not try to be so precise that you can measure with a ruler.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I'm only talking about the fact that you said you can put the ball anywhere on the endline. I'm not going to split hairs with a foot one way or the other. Now that I have (somewhat) answered your question, can you answer mine? Do you really put the ball anywhere or do you put the ball at the spot, or pretty close, to where it is supposed to be?

I didn't go to sleep yet. What question didn't I answer that you asked before the post above?

If you are at lead and the ball goes out of bounds on the other side of the paint, do you put the ball in on the side you are on, on the side it went out on with you over there, or bounce it across the paint? You have yet to tell me what determines where you put the ball into play. If you answered that simple question, we could quite possibly move on and agree to disagree. I have never said anything to make you think I would measure where I put the ball into play, so that statement does not apply here. However, my common sense directsl me where to put the ball into play - I put the ball into play where it went out (unless in the paint area) because...that is where it went out. Doing anything else would be inconsistent to say the least. If you answer my questions it would really shed some light on your thinking because what you are saying now is weird to me. If the ball goes out of bounds or there is a violation, do you do the same thing for the sidelines? If not, why not? Weird.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I didn't go to sleep yet. What question didn't I answer that you asked before the post above?

If you are at lead and the ball goes out of bounds on the other side of the paint, do you put the ball in on the side you are on, on the side it went out on with you over there, or bounce it across the paint? You have yet to tell me what determines where you put the ball into play. If you answered that simple question, we could quite possibly move on and agree to disagree.

I do not understand where you were going with this. If you feel it is that important, you have the right to do what works for you. As I have said before, I have never had anyone complain that I did not put the ball out at the "precise" spot. I have had a coach complain after a made FT that I did not hand the thrower the ball on the opposite side of the court in a very loud gym and I did not understand the request. But that is the only time I can think of if there was an issue once we state where the ball goes on the end line if the ball is put at. If I let players dictate, they would take the ball in the lane most of the time. I have to move them all the time from standing right under the basket.

Originally Posted by tomegun

I have never said anything to make you think I would measure where I put the ball into play, so that statement does not apply here. However, my common sense directsl me where to put the ball into play - I put the ball into play where it went out (unless in the paint area) because...that is where it went out. Doing anything else would be inconsistent to say the least.

Once again, I am looking for a reference that states to do what you suggest. Other than that I do not see any reason to change.

Originally Posted by tomegun

If you answer my questions it would really shed some light on your thinking because what you are saying now is weird to me. If the ball goes out of bounds or there is a violation, do you do the same thing for the sidelines? If not, why not? Weird.

Tommy, I have never had this conversation with anyone, ever in my career. So forgive me if I am kind of wondering why this is even an issue. Now if you have a person issue with this that is OK, just as long as we understand that. Now that does not mean I drastically move the ball around, but if the ball intersects with the 3 point line and the end line, based on a lot of factors which I stated, I might likely move the player to the half way between the 3 point line and the lane line. To me it does not matter. Even on the sideline, the configuration of the gym and where fans are might dictate many places I put the ball in at just because we might not have space to attempt a throw out of bounds.

Peace

[tomegun]

I would bet a large sum of money that you put the ball in the approximate spot where it goes out. I also think I'm not the only one who has heard and mentioned in pregame to put the ball in where it should go. I don't think this is a regional thing or something that just works for me. I think you are just trying to be argumentative. That's cool. I'm done with it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I must be missing something in your post. Are you saying that if the ball goes out at a specific spot, I am supposed to put the ball at that spot or I am violating some kind of rule?

Peace

IF he's not saying it, I will -- you are violating a rule. And, I'll add that it's not a big deal if it's only a small distance. The farther the distance, the bigger the deal.

I *think* tomegun read your words "anywhere along endline" (or whatever they were) and interpreted "a big distance isn't a big deal", while you really meant "anywhere in the general vicinity along the endline."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Tommy, I have never had this conversation with anyone, ever in my career. So forgive me if I am kind of wondering why this is even an issue. Now if you have a person issue with this that is OK, just as long as we understand that. Now that does not mean I drastically move the ball around, but if the ball intersects with the 3 point line and the end line, based on a lot of factors which I stated, I might likely move the player to the half way between the 3 point line and the lane line. To me it does not matter. Even on the sideline, the configuration of the gym and where fans are might dictate many places I put the ball in at just because we might not have space to attempt a throw out of bounds.
Peace

I am stunned by this. 9-3 PENALTY is pretty clear that the throw-in is from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation. The violation is the ball striking something out of bounds. Nearest would be.....nearest.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm almost sure it is

Ha ! ]

[stmaryrams]

Wouldn't moving the ball closer to the lane be giving one team an advantage.

If my team trapped your player in the corner and your player threw the ball off my player and it went OOB between the 3 point arc and the sideline - then the official puts the ball in play halfway between the arc and the lane I would be livid as a coach. Especially late in a tight game. That's why the rule is at the spot closest to where it went out.

JMHO

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I am stunned by this. 9-3 PENALTY is pretty clear that the throw-in is from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation. The violation is the ball striking something out of bounds. Nearest would be.....nearest.

I am stunned that this is even an issue as well. For one I do not know anyone that reverts back their geometry class and put the ball according to theorems and formulas. Secondly I do not recall that I said anything that violated a rule. I stated that based on a lot of factors I may or may not put the ball in a few steps one way or another. I did not say I move the ball from one side of the court to another. I know it becomes an even more drastic situation when the ball goes out on the sideline, where in many gyms the fans are right off the court or the teams and the table are right next to the line that a player has no place to stand. It is very common to move a player to a spot where there is more room. I guess this will just be something I will have to disagree with people on. If the ball goes out at the "P" I am not going to lose sleep if I bring the ball in on the "A" or "N" in some cases.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the ball is out on the baseline, you can pretty much put the ball in anywhere on the baseline. I do not throw on the end line right where the ball went out. So I put them usually in the between the sideline and the FT lane line.

Now that others have chimed in and helped me realize that I'm not totally crazy, look at the quote above.

No geometry class, or pulling out the ruler; I put the ball in approximately where it went out or where the violation occured - the exception is the ball going out of bounds in the lane area. That statement is very different from the quote above.

I would still like to know what determines and/or where the authority comes from to "put the ball in anywhere on the baseline." I just wish there was some straight talk and we could get to the bottom of that.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Now that others have chimed in and helped me realize that I'm not totally crazy, look at the quote above.

No geometry class, or pulling out the ruler; I put the ball in approximately where it went out or where the violation occured - the exception is the ball going out of bounds in the lane area. That statement is very different from the quote above.

I would still like to know what determines and/or where the authority comes from to "put the ball in anywhere on the baseline." I just wish there was some straight talk and we could get to the bottom of that.

Honestly, I do not care what other people say here. We do not officiate on this board. We do officiate in the real world. In the real world I have never had this conversation with anyone, ever including Bob who I have worked with several times. I have never had him say one thing to me about this in pre-game or in basic conversation during meetings. I have never had anyone say this to me in the many camps I attend and I go to at least 5 a year and have had many D1 and higher level officials evaluate me at those camps. I have also never seen anyone told they must put the ball at the "exact spot." And since Bob and I work in relative similar areas, he would have to say this to a lot of people. As I said before, I have a hard enough time trying to get a player to not stand in the middle of the lane on any throw-in along the end line. If it was that important to the teams, you would think they would stand where the ball is. They hardly ever do.

The bottom line we do not agree. I am going to put the ball "anywhere along the end line" if it goes out there. I will put the ball pretty much it went out, but I am not going to lose sleep if I move a couple of feet one way or the other. Now that is me, it does not have to be you. I am still waiting for a reference that suggests that I am wrong. And I mean not an interpretation of what is said, a clear example that you must take it out at this point or else.

Peace