"Team Control" Mechanics

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Some of us don't care which hand we use. I use my left hand on some fouls, the right on others.

Bigger fish to fry, if you ask me (which you didn't).

if you use different hands then you are in better shape than me, that is my point, because i generally signal all fouls with my left fist up first...if i am T and basket is to my right, the mechanic would be to come up with my right fist and punch the other way w/my left....for C at the same basket it would be the opposit, come up w/ left fist (closest to basket) and punch the other way w/ right fist..agree w/ you that there are bigger fish, but some assignors will ding you for mechanics and it is just one of those things you have to do over and over to get get comfortable -- and how many TC calls do you make in a game, 1, 2? hard to get used to...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kbilla

if you use different hands then you are in better shape than me, that is my point, because i generally signal all fouls with my left fist up first...if i am T and basket is to my right, the mechanic would be to come up with my right fist and punch the other way w/my left....for C at the same basket it would be the opposit, come up w/ left fist (closest to basket) and punch the other way w/ right fist..agree w/ you that there are bigger fish, but some assignors will ding you for mechanics and it is just one of those things you have to do over and over to get get comfortable -- and how many TC calls do you make in a game, 1, 2? hard to get used to...

There is no rhyme or reason to which hand I use, although in the team control situation when I'm the trail or center, I think I tend to use the outside hand cause I bring it up and then punch with it. As the lead, it really doesn't matter, does it?

I know some assignors are anal about this -- one college assignor at a camp I went to last year requires his officials to ALWAYS call fouls with the outside hand. Figured he must have a pretty good staff if that's one of his big concerns, which it seemed to be.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Some of us don't care which hand we use. I use my left hand on some fouls, the right on others.

And if I was in the stands evaluating you........

You'd see nothing on the sheet. If I ever tried to put down "called foul with wrong hand", I 'd burst out laughing before I could finish. As you said though, some do care. Ya gotta know your audience.

On the "stop clock" signal though, I have seen that one come into play. Playdowns and the evaluators gotta choose someone to go to the next round or a championship game....you have 2 officials that are about as close in actual game-calling ability as you can find..... the official using the "stop-clock" signal will get the nod because whoever is evaluating has to have some kinda reason for choosing one official over another. That might be the only one that they can find.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

There is no rhyme or reason to which hand I use, although in the team control situation when I'm the trail or center, I think I tend to use the outside hand cause I bring it up and then punch with it. As the lead, it really doesn't matter, does it?

I know some assignors are anal about this -- one college assignor at a camp I went to last year requires his officials to ALWAYS call fouls with the outside hand. Figured he must have a pretty good staff if that's one of his big concerns, which it seemed to be.

you are right on the lead it wouldn't matter....gotta love the consistency among associations with a federation mechanic...the whole inside hand up, opposite punching the other way that i was told is contrary to what you were told...granted that was a college assignor, but still i guarantee there is not consistency in HS even as to how this is being taught...and as JR says sometimes as silly as it is an evaluation could come down to something like that....i am not a state finals caliber official at this point, but would like to be at some point and i would like to develop the correct habit...if i could only find out what the correct habit is

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if I was in the stands evaluating you........

You'd see nothing on the sheet. If I ever tried to put down "called foul with wrong hand", I 'd burst out laughing before I could finish. As you said though, some do care. Ya gotta know your audience.

On the "stop clock" signal though, I have seen that one come into play. Playdowns and the evaluators gotta choose someone to go to the next round or a championship game....you have 2 officials that are about as close in actual game-calling ability as you can find..... the official using the "stop-clock" signal will get the nod because whoever is evaluating has to have some kinda reason for choosing one official over another. That might be the only one that they can find.

Depends where you are. I've seen a lot of college officials on TV working our state tourney the past few seasons and none of them even bother with the mechanic.

If I was evaluating (and I have in the past), I would only dock for mechanics that looked robotic or clunky or made it difficult for people to understand what the official was calling.

For example, I see a lot of JV officials around here stop the clock on an out of bounds violation and then simply say the color shirt while the hand stays up as if they don't know which way to point. Sitting in the stands, I have no idea which direction that official called until the ball's put in play. THAT would lose points.

A solid point accompanied by the shirt color with no stop clock mechanic would not cost on an evaluation.

[BillyMac]

I hate to admit this, but twice this year, during a throw-in situation, as the nonadministering official, I've seen illegal screens by the offensive team, and used the punch signal to indicate a team control foul. In the first case my partner told me that the ball hadn't been inbounded yet, so no team control, and no team control foul. The second time, after I punched, I observed that the inbounder still had the ball, and I gave the correct signals at the table. The only good thing about this is that it proves that I'm not looking outside my primary and "ball watching".

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by imaref

Dumb question.....but, anyone having difficulties with the new mechanics regarding "Team Control" foul action? Remembering to use the appropriate signal...administering the throw-in at POI.....how you communicate to partners and scorer's table....etc.....also, if opposing team is in bonus, we do not shoot bonus!

It's been a tough adjustment. Is it just me....or are others experiencing this same transition problem?

Any hints or experiences that can be shared to help make this change easier to adjust to?

what does "administering the throw-in at POI" have to do with Team Control fouls?

I would tell you to stop making this so hard. There are fouls on the offenseplayer control and team control ), fouls on the defense, and fouls when a team is neither ( I would call it a loose ball but that would confuse it with the NBA)...Since defensive fouls and when there is no team control are pretty much the same, you have two choices- If it aint offense then it is a "normal" foul (bonus applies etc)

(Many of the guys in my area yell "offense" when making either player control or team control and have some sort of punch/throw...If you signal team control or player control the score's table will get it,

You can also report----White 33, illegal screen, foul is team control; no shots, ball OOB. Does not take much longer and you are communicating. Your partner should be able to figure it out...

If there is a foul on the throw-in I usually talk with my partner so we get it right...

[imaref]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

what does "administering the throw-in at POI" have to do with Team Control fouls?

I would tell you to stop making this so hard. There are fouls on the offenseplayer control and team control ), fouls on the defense, and fouls when a team is neither ( I would call it a loose ball but that would confuse it with the NBA)...Since defensive fouls and when there is no team control are pretty much the same, you have two choices- If it aint offense then it is a "normal" foul (bonus applies etc)

(Many of the guys in my area yell "offense" when making either player control or team control and have some sort of punch/throw...If you signal team control or player control the score's table will get it,

You can also report----White 33, illegal screen, foul is team control; no shots, ball OOB. Does not take much longer and you are communicating. Your partner should be able to figure it out...

If there is a foul on the throw-in I usually talk with my partner so we get it right...

Great comments and observation. You are correct in your clarification of my flub on "administering the throw-in at POI". Thanks for clearing that up for me.

The mechanic as you describe is how I have been doing it. It forces me to "take my time" to get it right! All I am saying is that it's a process of finding the "comfort level" of working the mechanic.

Thanks....Kelvin for the help!

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I don't think I've used the stop clock mechanic before an out of bounds call in 10 years. Amazingly enough, the clock always stops anyway

I have bird-dogged twice this season. It made me feel quite nostalgic.

Rich, if you want to go anywhere in the WI State Tournament Series I would stongly suggest using the stop clock mechanic on out of bounds plays.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Rich, if you want to go anywhere in the WI State Tournament Series I would stongly suggest using the stop clock mechanic on out of bounds plays.

I guess that doesn't apply to the "college officials" I saw working the state tournament on TV last year. Or the year before.

Please note that what I post here is 90% tongue-in-cheek.

It's OK, regardless. I'm aware that someone with the power to assign me may read this and think I'm 100% serious. I could decide to create another user ID or stop posting entirely or be entirely serious all the time. Life's too short and for me this is a hobby I happen to enjoy that earns me some bucks.

It's why I don't care much that I have my name attached to these posts rather than some anonymous nom-de-net. I've come to realize that I'm not going anywhere in basketball (they don't want a short, fat guy on TV, for example ), so my focus is mainly on the regular season and having a good time doing what I'm doing. Any post-season games are just gravy for me and appear to be randomly assigned anyway.

Baseball season is just around the corner, provided I don't have a torn ligament in my knee. I'll find out later today. And I do have different goals and aspirations for baseball and football than I do basketball. And I think that's OK, too.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by mj

Ouch that hurts!

Rich,

You are right there are some "college officials" that don't follow this mechanic at the state tournament, and a bunch of them are not back this year.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Rich,

You are right there are some "college officials" that don't follow this mechanic at the state tournament, and a bunch of them are not back this year.

I've PMed the 3 Wisconsin officials on this thread. I don't like whining in public.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Rich,

You are right there are some "college officials" that don't follow this mechanic at the state tournament, and a bunch of them are not back this year.

How do you know this? Has your post-season already started? I'm just curious how you know who's working and who's not.

[JRutledge]

Here are my attitudes about mechanics (or uniforms). Who ever you work for, if they have rules that you must comply to you should follow the rules if you want to reep the benefits of everything that league or level holds. You cannot complain if they choose to hold you back because they do not give you a shot if you purposely ignore obvious procedures and guidelines.

Having said that I have found myself using the TC signal incorrectly (not on purpose) and I know that when observed that could be a downgrade and hurt me in some way. But I do most things correct, I hustle and I think I call the game better than most. But I cannot complain if someone says this mechanic flaw is why they hold me back.

It is their ball. they can do what they want to with it.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

How do you know this? Has your post-season already started? I'm just curious how you know who's working and who's not.

Assigned in mid-January.

I'm done. Dislocated patella. Slight LCL tear which the doc thinks may have been there for years and likely has nothing to do with anything (just showed up on the MRI).

So PT starts tomorrow and I try to get back for my first baseball date (a college DH in late March).