Rule Change Proposals

[JoeT]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Let's not have ANY changes next year. None at all, leave everything the way it was, only change the year and the committee members.

Amen. That's exactly what I was going to say. It almost seems as if there are rule changes each year so the rules committee can say it did something.

[sseltser]

A player shall not be the first to touch a ball after it has been in team control in the front court.......

As I would like to see it read: A player from the team in control shall not be the first to touch a ball in the backcourt if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball int eh frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

Reasoning is a discussion we had earlier in a meeting. By strict reading of the rule in its current wording, A1 shoots, the ball goes to the backcourt and is recovered by A2...this could be called a backcourt violation, if only by a strict reading of the rules...The ball had been in team control in the front court and A1 was the last to touch it in the front court, where A2 was the first to touch it in the backcourt. There is a case play that governs, and gives the correct interp for this situation, but by making the change it would lessen the possibility of a misapplication.

When A1 shot, Team lost control so by a strict or loose sense of reading the rules this could never be a violation.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by sseltser

When A1 shot, Team lost control so by a strict or loose sense of reading the rules this could never be a violation.

sseltser, I understand that that is the interpretation in the case book, and I whole heartedly agree, but that is not what the rule book says....It says and I quote 9-9-1...A player shall not be the first to touch a ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

A1 shoots the ball from the front court, it is a long rebound either touched by A2 in the front court or by no one, goes to the back court where A3 recovers it. By the strict reading of the rule above it is indeed a violation.

The ball was in team control in the front court (before A1 shot it)
it was last touched by either A1 or A2, depending on which you want to use, in the front court, then touched by A3 in the backcourt.

It doesn't say that team control must be maintained, only that a ball that has been in team control in the front court, and it had been when A1 shot it. The proposal just cleans that up a bit....

[deecee]

Originally Posted by cmathews

sseltser, I understand that that is the interpretation in the case book, and I whole heartedly agree, but that is not what the rule book says....It says and I quote 9-9-1...A player shall not be the first to touch a ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

A1 shoots the ball from the front court, it is a long rebound either touched by A2 in the front court or by no one, goes to the back court where A3 recovers it. By the strict reading of the rule above it is indeed a violation.

The ball was in team control in the front court (before A1 shot it)
it was last touched by either A1 or A2, depending on which you want to use, in the front court, then touched by A3 in the backcourt.

It doesn't say that team control must be maintained, only that a ball that has been in team control in the front court, and it had been when A1 shot it. The proposal just cleans that up a bit....

wow you really need THAT cleared up...

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

With the way the game is going, contact and rough play wise, I'd be in favor of changing the bonus situation and eliminating the 1 and 1. 2 shots at the 7th foul, and 2 shots plus the ball at the 10th foul.

Fed needs to drop the idea that fouling to stop the clock is a legitimate coaching strategy. I know its been around forever, but the thought of essentially saying "it is a legitimate coaching strategy to break the rules if you think it will give you an advantage, as long as you are willing to pay for it" is ridiculous.

I hope you are willing to work 3 hour games. Some teams are really bad and foul a lot and you could have 10 fouls early in the 4th if not late in 3rd! This would be completely stupid!

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by deecee

wow you really need THAT cleared up...

wow, I didn't say cleared up, I said CLEANED up......

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Change the Mechanics in 2 man officials. Have the official that reports the foul stay at table side. Thus making it similar with 3 man mechanics.
Not all varsity games in St. Louis, MO use 3 officials. There have been times that my partner, in a 2 man game, has stayed at table side after reporting the foul. I just made my adjustment in administering the Free Throw and we chatted about this proceedure after the game.

As an addendum to this, kill the long switch also!!!!

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Change the Mechanics in 2 man officials. Have the official that reports the foul stay at table side. Thus making it similar with 3 man mechanics.
Not all varsity games in St. Louis, MO use 3 officials. There have been times that my partner, in a 2 man game, has stayed at table side after reporting the foul. I just made my adjustment in administering the Free Throw and we chatted about this proceedure after the game.

Agree, this mechanic needs to change. Calling official should go table side and stay 2-person. I have had many coaches say they just want to ask a question but they can't because the official is on the other side of the court. Leave the option for the official to go opposite the table if they feel they need to.

#2.) Lower the FT count from 10 to 7, this will speed up the game. You're hardly ever going to reach 10 so either remove it all together or set it to 7 or a lower number.

#3.) Clock runs in the 4th quarter if down by more than 40 points. Direct technical foul on the coach for pressing if team is ahead by more than 40 points in the 4th quarter.

#4.) Running up the score: Add a direct technical foul to the coach for running up the score or attempting to get a player to score as many points as possible (personal gain) by running up the score. This encourages team play, eliminates embarrassing of weaker teams, sends the message its a team sport and not it's all about me.

#5.) My best one. Add a rule where a coach can get a technical after the game has been completed for unprofessional conduct in the game. For example: if you win a game 175 - 25 and your star player scores 125 points. Direct technical and one game suspension for running up the score if you can prove that the coach was negligent. After further review of the game, access technical fouls accordingly. Make coaching accountable even if the game is over. Just because the game is over doesn't mean you can't get a technical for your actions in the game. I feel strongly about this at the high school level.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

Agree, this mechanic needs to change. Calling official should go table side and stay 2-person. I have had many coaches say they just want to ask a question but they can't because the official is on the other side of the court. Leave the option for the official to go opposite the table if they feel they need to.

#2.) Lower the FT count from 10 to 7, this will speed up the game. You're hardly ever going to reach 10 so either remove it all together or set it to 7 or a lower number.

#3.) Clock runs in the 4th quarter if down by more than 40 points. Direct technical foul on the coach for pressing if team is ahead by more than 40 points in the 4th quarter.

#4.) Running up the score: Add a direct technical foul to the coach for running up the score or attempting to get a player to score as many points as possible (personal gain) by running up the score. This encourages team play, eliminates embarrassing of weaker teams, sends the message its a team sport and not it's all about me.

#5.) My best one. Add a rule where a coach can get a technical after the game has been completed for unprofessional conduct in the game. For example: if you win a game 175 - 25 and your star player scores 125 points. Direct technical and one game suspension for running up the score if you can prove that the coach was negligent. After further review of the game, access technical fouls accordingly. Make coaching accountable even if the game is over. Just because the game is over doesn't mean you can't get a technical for your actions in the game. I feel strongly about this at the high school level.

Wow. Just.... wow.....

[deecee]

#3.) Clock runs in the 4th quarter if down by more than 40 points. Direct technical foul on the coach for pressing if team is ahead by more than 40 points in the 4th quarter.

#4.) Running up the score: Add a direct technical foul to the coach for running up the score or attempting to get a player to score as many points as possible (personal gain) by running up the score. This encourages team play, eliminates embarrassing of weaker teams, sends the message its a team sport and not it's all about me.

#5.) My best one. Add a rule where a coach can get a technical after the game has been completed for unprofessional conduct in the game. For example: if you win a game 175 - 25 and your star player scores 125 points. Direct technical and one game suspension for running up the score if you can prove that the coach was negligent. After further review of the game, access technical fouls accordingly. Make coaching accountable even if the game is over. Just because the game is over doesn't mean you can't get a technical for your actions in the game. I feel strongly about this at the high school level.

please dont heed any of these suggestions -- we are not the moral police -- neither should we be dictating how coaches run their team. this is the responsibility of their administration/parents/and players.

If any of these rules are EVER enacted I CAN guarantee I will forget them very easily. I only want to police the practice of a fair game -- not a morally upstanding game. The team getting their azzes handed to them share just as much responsibility for sucking as the team that is very good. And I can say that from coaching some teams with no skill whatsoever and getting my azz handed to me. ITS LIFE.

[rainmaker]

So, Chuck, this thread has been up for 72 hours. Has anyone sent any "finished product" yet?

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Old School

Agree, this mechanic needs to change. Calling official should go table side and stay 2-person. I have had many coaches say they just want to ask a question but they can't because the official is on the other side of the court. Leave the option for the official to go opposite the table if they feel they need to.

#2.) Lower the FT count from 10 to 7, this will speed up the game. You're hardly ever going to reach 10 so either remove it all together or set it to 7 or a lower number.

#3.) Clock runs in the 4th quarter if down by more than 40 points. Direct technical foul on the coach for pressing if team is ahead by more than 40 points in the 4th quarter.

#4.) Running up the score: Add a direct technical foul to the coach for running up the score or attempting to get a player to score as many points as possible (personal gain) by running up the score. This encourages team play, eliminates embarrassing of weaker teams, sends the message its a team sport and not it's all about me.

#5.) My best one. Add a rule where a coach can get a technical after the game has been completed for unprofessional conduct in the game. For example: if you win a game 175 - 25 and your star player scores 125 points. Direct technical and one game suspension for running up the score if you can prove that the coach was negligent. After further review of the game, access technical fouls accordingly. Make coaching accountable even if the game is over. Just because the game is over doesn't mean you can't get a technical for your actions in the game. I feel strongly about this at the high school level.

How will lowering the foul counts to reach the bonus sooner speed up the game?

Pretty simple...lower count, FTs sooner, FTs stop the clock, every time the clock is stopped the game takes LONGER.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

How will lowering the foul counts to reach the bonus sooner speed up the game?

Pretty simple...lower count, FTs sooner, FTs stop the clock, every time the clock is stopped the game takes LONGER.

I meant instead of 10 seconds to shoot the FT, lower it to 7 seconds or some # below 10, or just do away with it all together.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Old School

I meant instead of 10 seconds to shoot the FT, lower it to 7 seconds or some # below 10, or just do away with it all together.

Yeah, I rarely call 10 seconds in the BC, so let's lower that to 7 too.

I usually hit between 3 and 4 on all my 5 second counts, so hey let's make that one 3.5 to save time as well.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Old School

I meant instead of 10 seconds to shoot the FT, lower it to 7 seconds or some # below 10, or just do away with it all together.

If you did away with it all together there would be no limit to the amount of time the FTer could take.

Reduce it to 7 seconds...? Why? Do all of the FTs in your game take the full 10 seconds?