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Old Tue Aug 09, 2005, 04:24am
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Situation. Pass play. A55 is flagged for holding. A12 throws a pass that is intercepted by B21 During the run back B30 blocks in the back. B21 is then tackled at the B40 by A80 with a 15 yard facemask.

By rule B has to decline BOTH fouls on A to keep the ball. To me, if after the change of possession, if A fouls it should be enforced from the suceeding spot. If B fouls after the change then offset them but B keeps the ball at the suceeding spot. My point is that under the current rules, other that a dead ball/non player foul, A can get a "free shot" in at no penalty. Not a good thing.
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Old Tue Aug 09, 2005, 06:32am
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Lightbulb Canadian Ruling

Quote:
Originally posted by cowbyfan1
Situation. Pass play. A55 is flagged for holding. A12 throws a pass that is intercepted by B21 During the run back B30 blocks in the back. B21 is then tackled at the B40 by A80 with a 15 yard facemask.

By rule B has to decline BOTH fouls on A to keep the ball. To me, if after the change of possession, if A fouls it should be enforced from the suceeding spot. If B fouls after the change then offset them but B keeps the ball at the suceeding spot. My point is that under the current rules, other that a dead ball/non player foul, A can get a "free shot" in at no penalty. Not a good thing.
We have:
  • Team A holding, 10 yards, applied from PLS only

  • Team B blocking from the rear, 15 yards, point of application dependant on bullet 1

  • Team A Unnecessary Roughness/Facemask, 15 yards, from whereever other 2 fouls are applied from


  • First foul by A - first option to B:
  • accept the hold, go back 10 and repeat the down. Also go back 15 more for the facemask. Team A will also accept the block from the rear, and it's 15 yards will offset the distance for the facemask. Total: L10, DR.

  • decline the hold, and accept the change of possession, and apply other two fouls as a dual foul:

  •    
  • Team A will of course accept the block from the rear, so it and the facemask will applied from point ball held (point where ball was held at time of the block from the rear). Since both are 15 yards, the distance parts offset. So, it's B 1D/10 @ PBH of block from the rear.
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      #3 (permalink)  
    Old Tue Aug 09, 2005, 07:47am
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    Re: Canadian Ruling

    Quote:
    Originally posted by JugglingReferee
    Quote:
    Originally posted by cowbyfan1
    Situation. Pass play. A55 is flagged for holding. A12 throws a pass that is intercepted by B21 During the run back B30 blocks in the back. B21 is then tackled at the B40 by A80 with a 15 yard facemask.

    By rule B has to decline BOTH fouls on A to keep the ball. To me, if after the change of possession, if A fouls it should be enforced from the suceeding spot. If B fouls after the change then offset them but B keeps the ball at the suceeding spot. My point is that under the current rules, other that a dead ball/non player foul, A can get a "free shot" in at no penalty. Not a good thing.
  • Team A will of course accept the block from the rear, so it and the facemask will applied from point ball held (point where ball was held at time of the block from the rear). Since both are 15 yards, the distance parts offset. So, it's B 1D/10 @ PBH of block from the rear.
  • If I'm understanding your last point, you're saying that both the block in the back by B and the face mask by A are accepted and enforced. Per 10-2-1c, if the team in final possession accepts the penalty for its opponent's foul, the penalties cancel and the down is replayed. So in that situation, wouldn't you replay the down instead of it being B's ball?
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    Old Tue Aug 09, 2005, 08:47am
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    Don't get confused by his 'Canadian ruling'...I don't even read them because of that reason Sorry, JR.
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    Old Tue Aug 09, 2005, 10:44am
    MJT MJT is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by cowbyfan1
    Situation. Pass play. A55 is flagged for holding. A12 throws a pass that is intercepted by B21 During the run back B30 blocks in the back. B21 is then tackled at the B40 by A80 with a 15 yard facemask.

    By rule B has to decline BOTH fouls on A to keep the ball. To me, if after the change of possession, if A fouls it should be enforced from the suceeding spot. If B fouls after the change then offset them but B keeps the ball at the suceeding spot. My point is that under the current rules, other that a dead ball/non player foul, A can get a "free shot" in at no penalty. Not a good thing.
    In NF that is the only way B gets to keep the ball, but I don't think A will purposely be taking "free shots" anyway.

    NFL ruling is nice in this situation, "the fouls offset at the spot of B's foul or the DBS, whichever is farther back, and B keeps the ball."
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    Old Wed Aug 10, 2005, 01:06am
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by MJT
    Quote:
    Originally posted by cowbyfan1
    Situation. Pass play. A55 is flagged for holding. A12 throws a pass that is intercepted by B21 During the run back B30 blocks in the back. B21 is then tackled at the B40 by A80 with a 15 yard facemask.

    By rule B has to decline BOTH fouls on A to keep the ball. To me, if after the change of possession, if A fouls it should be enforced from the suceeding spot. If B fouls after the change then offset them but B keeps the ball at the suceeding spot. My point is that under the current rules, other that a dead ball/non player foul, A can get a "free shot" in at no penalty. Not a good thing.
    In NF that is the only way B gets to keep the ball, but I don't think A will purposely be taking "free shots" anyway.

    NFL ruling is nice in this situation, "the fouls offset at the spot of B's foul or the DBS, whichever is farther back, and B keeps the ball."
    That would not be a bad thing there.. Good point MJT!
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    Old Wed Aug 10, 2005, 06:52am
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by devdog69
    Don't get confused by his 'Canadian ruling'...I don't even read them because of that reason Sorry, JR.
    It doesn't bother me. It wouldn't bother me even if you officiated Canadian football. After all, a million chinese won't give a $%#&U^ tomorrow.

    I am an experienced WH, who has WH'd a provincial final. I have tremendous confidence in my game. With that confidence, I feel that I can satisfy my academic curiousity, so I do read Fed and NCAA rulings to see the differences in our rules. It is fascinating! Here's some of what I think so far:

  • Penalty appication is easier in Canadian football

  • I do however like some aspects of US penalty application

  • The rouge truly is an exciting element to the game... IOW, you're missing out!

  • Our mechanics have us moving at times when we don't need to, if and only if we employed some changes similar to your mechanics
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    Old Wed Aug 10, 2005, 06:56am
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    Re: Re: Canadian Ruling

    Quote:
    Originally posted by kentref
    If I'm understanding your last point, you're saying that both the block in the back by B and the face mask by A are accepted and enforced. Per 10-2-1c, if the team in final possession accepts the penalty for its opponent's foul, the penalties cancel and the down is replayed. So in that situation, wouldn't you replay the down instead of it being B's ball?
    Sorry kentref. I do post Canadian Rulings for the canucks lurking here. Sometimes I also post Canadian Philosophies, Mechanics, etc.... I always state so in the same manner as above, and use the lightbulb picture.
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