Illegal Uniform Technical

[johnnyrao]

Boys JV game, first quarter. I am L on table side. Team A has a throw-in on the endline in their back court. B is pressing hard so I am up the side line close to the table. The horn sounds and the scorekeeper informs me (I go to the table since I am closest to it) that #2 on A is not in the book. I check with both books just to be sure and the court to make sure we have a #2 on the court (we do). I signal a technical foul on Team A for having a player with the wrong number in the book. After the first shot the coach of team A comes to me and says that #2 had blood on his uniform before the game and the assistant coach made him change. The coach tells me he had no idea of the shirt change and had no problem with the tech, he just wanted me to know what happened. I told him that in the future he should notify the referee if this happens and we continued on. No problems.

But, I thought about it later and here's my question. Since changing a shirt with blood on it is allowed by the rules, in all situations where you have a player in the game with a different number in the book, should you talk to the coach before assessing the T? Or is it the coach's responsibility to bring this to your attention? In this case, had I asked the coach about it first, the blood on the shirt issue may have come up then. If we could verify he did change because of the blood then we could correct this as an unmerited free throw and continue at the POI with Team A's throw-in. If you talk to the coach he says he had blood on his shirt, do you ask to see the other shirt with the proper number to verify there is blood on it? Since this game was a blowout it was not a big issue but I could see this becoming one in a close game.

[JRutledge]

My question to you is why did you believe the coach? No one was informed. No one knew about this other than the coach? Are you sure they were not just trying to get out of a T. I am all for common sense and not penalizing a team when possible, but I do not like the fact something was changed and no one was informed. They should have brought this to your attention when it took place.

Peace

[johnnyrao]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My question to you is why did you believe the coach? No one was informed. No one knew about this other than the coach? Are you sure they were not just trying to get out of a T. I am all for common sense and not penalizing a team when possible, but I do not like the fact something was changed and no one was informed. They should have brought this to your attention when it took place.

Peace

That's why I wanted to ask this. I had no idea that he was telling the truth, althugh if I had to guess I would say he was. But, if this happened would you ask to see the other shirt before the T? Do you even ask the coach about it before assessing? Or do we as officials have the expectation that coaches are responsible for bringing this to our attention.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnnyrao

That's why I wanted to ask this. I had no idea that he was telling the truth, althugh if I had to guess I would say he was. But, if this happened would you ask to see the other shirt before the T? Do you even ask the coach about it before assessing? Or do we as officials have the expectation that coaches are responsible for bringing this to our attention.

On the surface, I am giving a T. I am not asking for anything. If they could not ask for a change in shirt, that is their problem. You do not have to just change shirts because of blood; you can have the blood removed with a solution. I think they should give you the option to make a decision or at least inform everyone of the change. For all you know they just changed the jersey and forgot to report it in the book.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyrao

But, I thought about it later and here's my question. Since changing a shirt with blood on it is allowed by the rules, in all situations where you have a player in the game with a different number in the book, should you talk to the coach before assessing the T? Or is it the coach's responsibility to bring this to your attention? In this case, had I asked the coach about it first, the blood on the shirt issue may have come up then.

I don't have my book handy, but isn't it a T in Rule 10 to "change the uniform without notifying the referee and scorer?"

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't have my book handy, but isn't it a T in Rule 10 to "change the uniform without notifying the referee and scorer?"

Yes, but is this a violation of:

Originally Posted by Rule Book

10-3-1 Player Technical - A player shall not: Participate after changing his/her number without reporting it to the scorer and an official.
PENALTY: (Art. 1) Flagrant foul. Penalized if discovered while being violated.

or

Originally Posted by Rule Book

Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time.
PENALTY: (Art. 1) One foul for both requirements. Penalized when it occurs.

?

I'm thinking (I know, bear with me), that the person was not a player, per se, under a different number, during the game. They always had the wrong number. IOW, they didn't play, change their number, then play again.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I'm thinking (I know, bear with me), that the person was not a player, per se, under a different number, during the game. They always had the wrong number. IOW, they didn't play, change their number, then play again.

It's a violation of rule 10-1-2(c)- "Require the scorer to change a team member's or player's number in the scorebook." That's penalized when it occurs. Team technical foul as long as it's the first occurrence.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Wow. Yeah. Stunning, how I can sometimes not find what I'm looking for in there, yet read before and after it multiple times.

Thank you, Jurassic.

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by johnnyrao

That's why I wanted to ask this. I had no idea that he was telling the truth, althugh if I had to guess I would say he was. But, if this happened would you ask to see the other shirt before the T? Do you even ask the coach about it before assessing? Or do we as officials have the expectation that coaches are responsible for bringing this to our attention.

_______________________________

Nope, I don't ask to see a bloody shirt. You're buying into his game. Let's say he is lying. What do you do then, T him up for lying to you. He didn't follow proper procedure.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by johnnyrao

But, I thought about it later and here's my question. Since changing a shirt with blood on it is allowed by the rules, in all situations where you have a player in the game with a different number in the book, should you talk to the coach before assessing the T? Or is it the coach's responsibility to bring this to your attention? In this case, had I asked the coach about it first, the blood on the shirt issue may have come up then. If we could verify he did change because of the blood then we could correct this as an unmerited free throw and continue at the POI with Team A's throw-in. If you talk to the coach he says he had blood on his shirt, do you ask to see the other shirt with the proper number to verify there is blood on it? Since this game was a blowout it was not a big issue but I could see this becoming one in a close game.

Changing a number, even due to blood, should be communicated to an official and the official scorer.

Heck, seeveral years back at a college alumni game, one of our players decided to wear a new shirt for the second half and I followed the procedure, just to stay kosher.