Blarge--does it exist?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"Really, Coach...I think the rulebook also says something about Coach's not stepping out of their boxes too."

or (if the Coach is actually standing squarely in his box)

"Coach, we pregame this kinda stuff...one official had it one way, and the other offical had it the other way...we got together and determined who had the best look."

If the Coach continues...then, "Coach, we'd do the same for you if it was the other way." Then move on...

I'll just put it this way, NFHS rule is the same as the NCAA Mens' rule, and the NCAA Mens officials enforce the rule as written.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'll just put it this way, NFHS rule is the same as the NCAA Mens' rule, and the NCAA Mens officials enforce the rule as written.

I'll just put it this way, are you sure you can speak for ALL the NCAA Mens officials?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"Really, Coach...I think the rulebook also says something about Coach's not stepping out of their boxes too."

or (if the Coach is actually standing squarely in his box)

"Coach, we pregame this kinda stuff...one official had it one way, and the other offical had it the other way...we got together and determined who had the best look."

If the Coach continues...then, "Coach, we'd do the same for you if it was the other way." Then move on...

And what do you do if your assignor or your evaluator asks you why you didn't follow the rules? Are you gonna try and lay the same...uh...stuff on them? Or is it an accepted procedure in your area not to follow the directions laid out in the rules?

Just wondering....

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And what do you do if your assignor or your evaluator asks you why you didn't follow the rules? Are you gonna try anf lay the same...uh...stuff on them? Or is it an accepted procedure in your area not to follow the directions laid out in the rules?

Just wondering....

Yes......sir.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

I'll just put it this way, are you sure you can speak for ALL the NCAA Mens officials?

I can speak of seeing it happen on televised games. There was a thread about it the first week of the NCAA season. If it's good enough for them to follow the rules in this situation, it's good enough for me.

And anytime the subject has come in camp....nevermind.

Point is, it's in the rulebook. Plenty of coaches know it's in the rulebook. I want someone to illustrate the conversation they are going to have with a knowlegeable coach as to why the crew has decided to eschew a rule.

And tomorrow night, when I'm the crew chief, we'll pre-game the NFHS way. No one I have ever worked with has ever pre-gamed it differently.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

I'll just put it this way, are you sure you can speak for ALL the NCAA Mens officials?

All I can go by is conversations that I've had and blarges that I've seen handled in NCAA tv games(including a few this year), but I've never seen it handled any other way except by the procedure laid out in the rules. Iirc, there was a blarge in a recent Final Four or Eight game, and they went the double foul route. I just can't imagine them doing anything otherwise in a high profile game like that, after both officials had come out with conflicting signals.

Obviously, you have seen NCAA MENS officials handle it differently. What conference was it in?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Yes......sir.

OK....fine.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Obviously, you have seen NCAA MENS officials handle it differently. What conference was it in?

wait....wait.....here it comes............................

I'm still waiting also JR.

[RookieDude]

JR...I'm going to start typing this post before I even wait for a response from you for my last post. (Because I know you won't let that sleeping dog lay)

You keep quoting Case book play 4.19.8(C)

For the record...here it is.

4.19.8 SITUATION C: A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball. Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter A1 returns to the floor. One official calls a blocking foul on B1 and the other official calls a charging foul on A1. The try is successful.
RULING: Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try and the goal is scored. Play is resumed at the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line. (4-36)

As one poster said earlier...just because a signal is made, does that make it a call. If the "signal" was never reported...then does that mean it never happened, and thus was not an actual call? (you know...sort of like the tree in the forest)

Your case play states two calls are made. Therefore, I am assuming both officials could not get together and decide which call to make. Soooo, in this case...you are correct...score the basket.

I am simply saying...that in my games...we will get together and come up with ONE call, not TWo...as stated in your case play.

If I am reading this case play wrong...then I guess I will miss this inteurpt...but, at least I will be consistent with what my fellow officials do in this area.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

JR...I'm going to start typing this post before I even wait for a response from you for my last post. (Because I know you won't let that sleeping dog lay)

You keep quoting Case book play 4.19.8(C)

For the record...here it is.

4.19.8 SITUATION C: A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball. Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter A1 returns to the floor. One official calls a blocking foul on B1 and the other official calls a charging foul on A1. The try is successful.
RULING: Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try and the goal is scored. Play is resumed at the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line. (4-36)

As one poster said earlier...just because a signal is made, does that make it a call. If the "signal" was never reported...then does that mean it never happened, and thus was not an actual call? (you know...sort of like the tree in the forest)

Your case play states two calls are made. Therefore, I am assuming both officials could not get together and decide which call to make. Soooo, in this case...you are correct...score the basket.

I am simply saying...that in my games...we will get together and come up with ONE call, not TWo...as stated in your case play.

If I am reading this case play wrong...then I guess I will miss this inteurpt...but, at least I will be consistent with what my fellow officials do in this area.

And that is just one of many reasons we have coaches that don't know the rules....there are officials that know them but think they are too big to follow clear rules so they make up their own....and some of the coaches will believe them.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"Really, Coach...I think the rulebook also says something about Coach's not stepping out of their boxes too."

or (if the Coach is actually standing squarely in his box)

Classy...threaten a coach with a T when he calls you on your made up rule.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"Coach, we pregame this kinda stuff...one official had it one way, and the other offical had it the other way...we got together and determined who had the best look."

I could pregame that we'll call a foul on B4 everytime he pivots left too...Or call a T on any player that hits the backboard in the process of blocking a shot....or call GT anytime a shot is blocked after it hits the backboard. That doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

If the Coach continues...then, "Coach, we'd do the same for you if it was the other way." Then move on...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

wait....wait.....here it comes............................

I'm still waiting also JR.

Geeze, we got everybody doing it now...LOL...

Poor ol' SEC.....

Lah me.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude
As one poster said earlier...just because a signal is made, does that make it a call. If the "signal" was never reported...then does that mean it never happened, and thus was not an actual call? (you know...sort of like the tree in the forest);)

Your case play states two [B

calls[/B] are made. Therefore, I am assuming both officials could not get together and decide which call to make. Soooo, in this case...you are correct...score the basket.

I am simply saying...that in my games...we will get together and come up with ONE call, not TWo...as stated in your case play.

If I am reading this case play wrong...then I guess I will miss this inteurpt...but, at least I will be consistent with what my fellow officials do in this area.

I take it then that all officials in your area will always come up with one call, even if they have already made conflicting signals. Iow, that's your standard philosophy- to basically follow the NCAA Womens rule in all games? Correct?

Question? Does that philosophy get applied uniformly and consistently at the state tournament level there too?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And tomorrow night, when I'm the crew chief, we'll pre-game the NFHS way. No one I have ever worked with has ever pre-gamed it differently.

I do the same. However, I have seen many officials pregame to do things other than the NFHS way. One example that comes up frequently is defensive position under the basket. I've seen many crews/officials in NFHS games say that this is not a legal position from which to draw a charge. They will either call a block or nothing on the play.

[RookieDude]

Ok...I'm back. Sorry it has taken so long to respond to all these heart felt messages....but, I just got done with a H.S. Boys Varsity game that went into OT. Great game...no "blarges".

Edit:
I just deleted a whole bunch of rebutals I had to all the different responses.
I decided it isn't worth it...I'm apparently on the wrong side of this RULE debate with many on this forum...but, I can assure you I am on the right side of it around these parts.

JR...you are correct...all the college officials (mostly CC) that I officiate with go with the same procedure I have described.

While at State? I do as the Romans do.

When I get a chance, I'll ask a couple of D1 guys I know on how they would handle it in one of their Gonzaga games, etc. I promise you I will tell you what they say.

Gotta go...meeting a few friends at the local Applebee's for a couple Coors Light and some Late Night News footage.