backcourt from throw-in??

[81artmonk]

I have a question?

Team A has possession of the ball. Team B swats the ball out of Team/player A's hands and out of bounds, and the ball is awarded to team A for a throw-in. Team A throws the ball in from the baseline, and the ball sails past everyone to the backcourt where Team A gets possession of the ball. Is this not backcourt?? I Thought that in order for there not to be backcourt, possession had to change. Please enlighten me on this.

[HawkeyeCubP]

No violation.

4-12-6 Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, throw-in, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

Without team control, you can't have a backcourt violation.

(This is different from NCAA and NBA, I believe.)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

No violation.

4-12-6 Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, throw-in, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

Without team control, you can't have a backcourt violation.

(This is different from NCAA and NBA, I believe.)

This is legal in the NCAA as well.

Rule 9-12-4.

Peace

[HawkeyeCubP]

There you have it. I think I'm thinking of team control related to fouls in NCAA rules. Or I'm making things up.

[Nevadaref]

You are thinking of the team control foul difference on throw-ins for the NFHS and NCAA rulesets.

However, you were correct that this is illegal in the NBA unless it is in the last two minutes. That is the source of much confusing for those watching HS and college games. People believe that what they saw on TV in an NBA game applies just the same to the NFHS or NCAA games. It doesn't.

[81artmonk]

I was just thinking that since Team A had possession before the ball went out of bounds, that possession never changed even during the throw-in so it would be back court. So what you are saying is that no matter who had possession, a ball going out of bounds automatically becomes dead with no one having possession, therefore, there would be no backcourt.
my reasoning on this was from an instance in a game where Player A had the ball and player B swatted the ball loose from player A causing the ball to roll off their leg and go backcourt, where another player From A retrieved it and it wasn't called backcourt, yet possession never changed and I was told from this forum that it should have been called backcourt. So, that was were I sort of reasoned my thoughts. I guess I was wrong, but I learn ya know

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I was just thinking that since Team A had possession before the ball went out of bounds, that possession never changed even during the throw-in so it would be back court. So what you are saying is that no matter who had possession, a ball going out of bounds automatically becomes dead with no one having possession, therefore, there would be no backcourt.
my reasoning on this was from an instance in a game where Player A had the ball and player B swatted the ball loose from player A causing the ball to roll off their leg and go backcourt, where another player From A retrieved it and it wasn't called backcourt, yet possession never changed and I was told from this forum that it should have been called backcourt. So, that was were I sort of reasoned my thoughts. I guess I was wrong, but I learn ya know

Bonus Question:

How bout this one my good fan.

Team A has a throw-in at the division line...A1 throws the ball to A2, who is standing in A's frontcourt, the ball touches A2 and rebounds into the backcourt. Is it a backcourt violation if a Team A member is the first to touch the ball in the backcourt?

[81artmonk]

I would say yes, with an aside. It would depend on how the player touched the ball. To my knowledge, certain touching means they have control and if control is established than it would be backcourt. If it just hit thier hand or leg it wouldn't be. So.....do I win the consolation prize??

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I was just thinking that since Team A had possession before the ball went out of bounds, that possession never changed even during the throw-in so it would be back court. So what you are saying is that no matter who had possession, a ball going out of bounds automatically becomes dead with no one having possession, therefore, there would be no backcourt.
my reasoning on this was from an instance in a game where Player A had the ball and player B swatted the ball loose from player A causing the ball to roll off their leg and go backcourt, where another player From A retrieved it and it wasn't called backcourt, yet possession never changed and I was told from this forum that it should have been called backcourt. So, that was were I sort of reasoned my thoughts. I guess I was wrong, but I learn ya know

While "possession" may have never changed, a backcourt violation involves continuous "team control". And, team control doesn't continue through a dead ball. It ends when the ball goes OOB and it starts again when team A first holds or dribbles the ball inbounds.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I was just thinking that since Team A had possession before the ball went out of bounds, that possession never changed even during the throw-in so it would be back court. So what you are saying is that no matter who had possession, a ball going out of bounds automatically becomes dead with no one having possession, therefore, there would be no backcourt.
my reasoning on this was from an instance in a game where Player A had the ball and player B swatted the ball loose from player A causing the ball to roll off their leg and go backcourt, where another player From A retrieved it and it wasn't called backcourt, yet possession never changed and I was told from this forum that it should have been called backcourt. So, that was were I sort of reasoned my thoughts. I guess I was wrong, but I learn ya know

You've got it now.

From the defintion of Control, Player and Team in the rules book:

4-12-2 . . . A team is in control of the ball when a player of the team is in control, while a live ball is being passed among teammates and during an interrupted dribble.

4-12-6 . . . Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, throw-in, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I would say yes, with an aside. It would depend on how the player touched the ball. To my knowledge, certain touching means they have control and if control is established than it would be backcourt. If it just hit thier hand or leg it wouldn't be. So.....do I win the consolation prize??

No control = No backcourt violation

If I were the judge, I'd count your answer as correct and give you the consolation prize.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I guess I was wrong, but I learn ya know

We never have a problem with people being wrong, as long as they cop to it!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I was just thinking that since Team A had possession before the ball went out of bounds, that possession never changed even during the throw-in so it would be back court.

Posession < > Team Control

[cmckenna]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

my reasoning on this was from an instance in a game where Player A had the ball and player B swatted the ball loose from player A causing the ball to roll off their leg and go backcourt, where another player From A retrieved it and it wasn't called backcourt, yet possession never changed and I was told from this forum that it should have been called backcourt. So, that was were I sort of reasoned my thoughts. I guess I was wrong, but I learn ya know

81... Can you tell me if it was A or B's leg that it went off of in the quote from you above because I may be bothered by one thing you state here....

Assuming that B swatted the ball and it went in to the backcourt off of B's leg, then A is allowed to be the first to touch in the backcourt without violating. You state that you were told that this SHOULD be a BC violation.

If it went BC off of A's leg though, then it is a BC violation.

Just wasn't clear from the post whos leg it went off of.... maybe it was obvious to some but I am a little slow today...

Chris

[81artmonk]

CMCKENNA,

It went off of A's leg. B swatted it loose, and it rolled off of A's leg whom possessed it.