Backcourt Violation During Throw-In

[imagomer]

I'm Red coach. On a throw-in on Red's frontcourt sideline, Red fails to catch (Vgirls) and establish team control. (Official agreed, no team control was established) Defense never touched the ball. Ball goes into the backcourt; Red chases and touches and controlled the ball in their backcourt. Official called a backcourt violation. Was this correct? I thought that front court team control needed to be established before a backcourt violation could occur. The Official was very clear and sure of his call - he clearly understood my objection and quickly, succintly explained his interp very confidently. Good enough for me: I've got girls to try to coach. Was he correct? Thanks.

[brandan89]

Nope, this is not correct.

[mick]

Originally posted by imagomer
On a throw-in on Red's frontcourt sideline, Red fails to catch (Vgirls) and establish team control. (Official agreed, no team control was established) Defense never touched the ball. Ball goes into the backcourt; Red chases and touches and controlled the ball in their backcourt.

imagomer,
You are correct to assume that Team Control must be established before there is any chance of a back court violation.
Since Red did not establish team control until a Red player controlled the ball in the backcourt, no violation is warranted.
Do you remember what path that official's erroneous interpretation took?
mick

[twref]

I have a similar question-please let me know the correct ruling. We all know when a front court throw in occurs team A can go into the back court and catch the ball with no violation.

Scenario #1-Team A has a front court throw in and throws the ball into the back court. While the ball is in flight A1 jumps from the front court-catches the ball in the air and lands in the back court. I assume that the ball is not in the front court (as it pertains to the over and back violation) until the ball is controled by A. Thus no over and back-Correct?

Secenario #2-A1 is dribbling the ball (has control) in the front court and steps on the division line. The ball never crosses the division line. I assume this is an over and back violation regardless of whether or not the ball actually crosses the division line.

[FrankHtown]

#1 --9-9-3 is the exception where a player may jump fron their frontcourt into the backcourt without penalty.

#2- violation

[Rick Durkee]

Originally posted by twref
I have a similar question-please let me know the correct ruling. We all know when a front court throw in occurs team A can go into the back court and catch the ball with no violation.

Scenario #1-Team A has a front court throw in and throws the ball into the back court. While the ball is in flight A1 jumps from the front court-catches the ball in the air and lands in the back court. I assume that the ball is not in the front court (as it pertains to the over and back violation) until the ball is controled by A. Thus no over and back-Correct?

FrankHtown answered for scenario #1. It is just an exception to the rule. Don't worry about the team/player control issues.

Secenario #2-A1 is dribbling the ball (has control) in the front court and steps on the division line. The ball never crosses the division line. I assume this is an over and back violation regardless of whether or not the ball actually crosses the division line.

It is not entirely clear from your post. If I assume that you mean that A1 had already dribbled the ball in the frontcourt, then it is a backcourt violation when he/she steps on the line. If the ball was still being dribbled in the backcourt, then it is not a violation. The division line is part of the backcourt.

[imagomer]

The Official mostly was just adamant that control was unnecessary. I believe he was injecting the "tip off the fingers of the offense in control" concept. The conversation went something like this: Him, "tweet."
Me: "she never had control!"
Him: "Offense touched in the front court."
Me:"we never had team control!" (yes, I said 'team control')
Him: "she doesn't need it."
Me: "Are you sure?"
Him: "Absolutely; control or not, it's still backcourt."
Me: "Julia!, quit playing with your ponytail!!"
We won (season tourney champs, yay!), and even if we had lost, I know this was not the turning point. It is an important coaching point, though. It's surprising how often the throw in is near the division line. I and my team need to know the rule here. Officiating for (only) a year made me a more knowledgeable, tolerable coach. I try to focus on my team.

[mick]

Originally posted by imagomer
The Official mostly was just adamant that control was unnecessary. I believe he was injecting the "tip off the fingers of the offense in control" concept. The conversation went something like this: Him, "tweet."
Me: "she never had control!"
Him: "Offense touched in the front court."
Me:"we never had team control!" (yes, I said 'team control')
Him: "she doesn't need it."
Me: "Are you sure?"
Him: "Absolutely; control or not, it's still backcourt."
Me: "Julia!, quit playing with your ponytail!!"
We won (season tourney champs, yay!), and even if we had lost, I know this was not the turning point. It is an important coaching point, though. It's surprising how often the throw in is near the division line. I and my team need to know the rule here. Officiating for (only) a year made me a more knowledgeable, tolerable coach. I try to focus on my team.

Good post, Coach.
Congratulations with your championship, and keep trying to educate those girls and refs.
mick