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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 12:47pm
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bench player grabs a live ball...

hypothetical... What do you got?

A1 is passing the ball to A2 along the sideline. Player B6 who is on the bench reaches up and grabs the ball. What do you call? citations please.


another similar sit.: This is how it happened last night.
A1 is attempting to inbound the ball at the division line. Ball is deflect slightly by B1 and is bouncing towards A2 in the BC. Bench Player B6 grabs the pass. I don't think it was intentional or unsporting in any way, just a reflex - he thought it was going OB. Officials give Team A a "redo". Now, n the spirit of fair play I had absolutely no problem with them doing this. It didn't affect the outcome or any subsequent play, but I'm curious about the correct ruling by the book. I haven't looked very hard, but I would like some input from the experts here.

Thanks in advance.
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 01:08pm
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this would be a T
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 01:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JM_00
hypothetical... What do you got?

A1 is passing the ball to A2 along the sideline. Player B6 who is on the bench reaches up and grabs the ball. What do you call? citations please.
Would the ruling be different if in a)the pass is a good pass, and B6 reaches across the sideline to grab it, or b)the pass is not a good one, and A2 is reaching over the OOB plane to grab the ball, and B6 puts his hands up to catch the ball that is coming towards him?

In a, I would agree with deecee, a T, but in b, I think it would be hard to say this was unsporting, and not just a player protecting himself.
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 01:36pm
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In the specific situation last night the player reached IB to grab the ball he was not protecting himself. The sidelines were very tight to the bench. I'm positive that it was not an intentional act meant to disrupt the play, but more of a reflex action.

Under what rule would you justify a T?
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 01:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JM_00
Under what rule would you justify a T?
You've got a couple of choices. I'd probably go with an illegal substitute; that way you don't have to hit the coach with an indirect.
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 01:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JM_00
In the specific situation last night the player reached IB to grab the ball he was not protecting himself. The sidelines were very tight to the bench. I'm positive that it was not an intentional act meant to disrupt the play, but more of a reflex action.

Under what rule would you justify a T?
What level game is this? That might have some influence on the call.
Tight sidelines or not, anything over a 5th grade team should know better.
If it is an upper level game, I would think that a bench technical for the unsporting would fit. (10-4-1),(4-19-14)
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 02:09pm
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This was a varsity boys game
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 02:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JM_00
This was a varsity boys game
Hit the player with an illegal substitution technical foul. If and when the coach complains, remind him that your other options include charging him with an indirect T.
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 02:55pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Hit the player with an illegal substitution technical foul. If and when the coach complains, remind him that your other options include charging him with an indirect T.
Why not just give the kid a "T" under generic 10.4.1 and also give the coach his indirect "T"? Isn't the head coach responsible for his bench? Seat-belt the head coach and see if the l'il sh!t ever pulls that one again. They both deserve it anyway for making you think about what to call.
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 03:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Why not just give the kid a "T" under generic 10.4.1 and also give the coach his indirect "T"? Isn't the head coach responsible for his bench? Seat-belt the head coach and see if the l'il sh!t ever pulls that one again. They both deserve it anyway for making you think about what to call.
LOL this is pretty much what I was thinking? Why would I be looking for ways to NOT give the coach an indirect T on this when the committee obviously wants the HC to be personally responsible for the conduct of his bench personnel? Like so many other areas of teenage life, learning comes from doing stupid things and suffering the consequences. And a pissed off coach will personally handle the consequences part for you, freeing you up to call the game
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 03:56pm
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With your sit, I would try not to give the bench player a T unless I felt he was trying to deliberately disrupt the play.

In a televised game earlier this season involving Kansas, a ball being dribbled by a player (attempting to drive around a defender) came in contact with an OOB player's foot as that player was on the sideline moving to check in. At the time, the ball was in play and near the line, but it went out of bounds after hitting the OOB player's foot.

The officials met and gave the ball back to the offensive team even though their player was the last player on the court to touch it inbounds.

I guess I'm saying that situations offered on this forum are sometimes viewed in black and white terms and good officiating often involves the ability to see the areas of gray. If you felt the kid intentionally tried to disrupt the play or did something similar previously, he may deserve a T. If he was simply being a kid playing a basketball -- not really paying attention or being just reflexive, find a way to play on.
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Old Wed Jan 17, 2007, 04:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmkbball
I guess I'm saying that situations offered on this forum are sometimes viewed in black and white terms and good officiating often involves the ability to see the areas of gray. If you felt the kid intentionally tried to disrupt the play or did something similar previously, he may deserve a T. If he was simply being a kid playing a basketball -- not really paying attention or being just reflexive, find a way to play on.
You're also saying that now every person on both benches can reach in-bounds and touch a ball that wan't going out of bounds any time that they feel like it, and that's fine with you. Unless you're a mind-reader, I don't know how you can really determine "intent".

Well, that'll slow down some fast breaks, for sure. I think that a smart coach might even start working on that one on practise.

Good luck with that.....
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