offense penalized

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by d1ref2b

Applied as revised:

Team A is awarded a throw in as a result of an AP situation. The throw in is made by Team A, but is intentionally kicked by Team B. Because the ball was not “legally” touched by a player that was inbounds or out of bounds, the AP throw in did not end. Team A would then be awarded a throw in as a result of the kicking violation by Team B, and would not lose the arrow since they did not commit a violation, as references in Rule 6-4, art 5. The AP arrow will stay pointed towards Team A’s basket, giving Team A the opportunity to make the next AP throw in.

I partially agree with your amendment. Because currently, if following the kick ball, the next attempted throw-in resulted a held ball due to the A1 placing the ball through the plane and B1 tying him up, yes Team B would have the resulting AP throw-in.

But I think your revision should read:

...Team A would then be awarded a throw in as a result of the kicking violation by Team B, and would not lose the arrow since they did not commit a violation, as references in Rule 6-4, art 5. The resulting throw-in would still be considered an AP throw-in and the arrow will change when this throw-in ends.

[d1ref2b]

Originally Posted by cmathews

so you are saying that A will now have the opportunity to complete the throw in, and retain the arrow????? or would you have them switch the arrow after the "legally" completed throw in

As currently written Team A would lose the arrow because Team B touched the ball, albeit by kicking it.

I want the rule to be revised that the throw in ends when the ball is LEGALLY touched. Now it states that the throw in ends when the ball is touched. So if Team A is making an AP throw in and Team B kicks the initial throw, Team A now has a throw in for the violation and retains the arrow. A team can not lose the arrow unless that team violates. This is how the rule is administered in the NCAA.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally Posted by d1ref2b

My apologies then. Would have thought someone would have gotten it correct then or at least contacted the NFHS to fix the rule as written.

I don't see a need to fix anything. Why should A benefit because they have a lousy player who can not inbound the ball so his own player is 1st to touch or posess the ball?

The rule isn't broken so no need to fix.

[d1ref2b]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I partially agree with your amendment. Because currently, if following the kick ball, the next attempted throw-in resulted a held ball due to the A1 placing the ball through the plane and B1 tying him up, yes Team B would have the resulting AP throw-in.

But I think your revision should read:

...Team A would then be awarded a throw in as a result of the kicking violation by Team B, and would not lose the arrow since they did not commit a violation, as references in Rule 6-4, art 5. The resulting throw-in would still be considered an AP throw-in and the arrow will change when this throw-in ends.

You penalize Team A. They lose the arrow because Team B kicked the ball. All that needs to be revised is "legally" touched ends a throw in.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

I don't see a need to fix anything. Why should A benefit because they have a lousy player who can not inbound the ball so his own player is 1st to touch or posess the ball?

The rule isn't broken so no need to fix.

d12b, see what I mean?

[d1ref2b]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

I don't see a need to fix anything. Why should A benefit because they have a lousy player who can not inbound the ball so his own player is 1st to touch or posess the ball?

The rule isn't broken so no need to fix.

It is broken. A kick is not a legal touch. If it was we wouldn't have a violation for intentionally kicking the ball. Kicking is a violation. Again, throw in team can not lose the arrow unless they violate. The set of rules governing this situation are contradictory.

[d1ref2b]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

d12b, see what I mean?

Unfortunately no. It is beyond having a bad player. Rules are NOT consistent on this point in NFHS.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by d1ref2b

As currently written Team A would lose the arrow because Team B touched the ball, albeit by kicking it.

I want the rule to be revised that the throw in ends when the ball is LEGALLY touched. Now it states that the throw in ends when the ball is touched. So if Team A is making an AP throw in and Team B kicks the initial throw, Team A now has a throw in for the violation and retains the arrow. A team can not lose the arrow unless that team violates. This is how the rule is administered in the NCAA.

so you are in essence saying that A will get the throw in because of the kicked ball now. When that throw in is completed, they also will keep the arrow?

[mick]

What just happened ?

[d1ref2b]

Originally Posted by cmathews

so you are in essence saying that A will get the throw in because of the kicked ball now. When that throw in is completed, they also will keep the arrow?

Yes. They are now making a throw in for the kicking violation. Since the AP throw in was not "legally" touched on the court it never ended. Team A retains the arrow for the next AP throw in

[Adam]

My opinion, the purpose of the arrow is to give A the throwin; not the possession. Once the throwin starts, the arrow has served its purpose. If B1kicks the ball during a normal throwin, A just gets the ball. If B1 kicks the ball during an AP throwin, you're suggesting they lose the next arrow and the ball.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by d1ref2b

Yes. They are now making a throw in for the kicking violation. Since the AP throw in was not "legally" touched on the court it never ended. Team A retains the arrow for the next AP throw in

I agree that they shouldn't lose the arrow as it pertains to that individual throw in. However when they succesfully complete the "2nd" throw in the arrow should be switched. By not switching the arrow you are in essence punishing be for playing defense. Yes, I agree kicking the ball is a violation, but it is still a defensive play that I don't think should be penalized doubly. Keep the arrow until you complete a throw in, but switch it at that point. IMHO

[d1ref2b]

I appreciate eveyones opinion and input. I have submitted this to both the FHSAA and NFHS. We will have to wait and see.

Happy New Years to everyone. Wishing all a lenghty post season

[Adam]

What is this, a hit and run?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by cmathews

I agree that they shouldn't lose the arrow as it pertains to that individual throw in. However when they succesfully complete the "2nd" throw in the arrow should be switched. By not switching the arrow you are in essence punishing be for playing defense. Yes, I agree kicking the ball is a violation, but it is still a defensive play that I don't think should be penalized doubly. Keep the arrow until you complete a throw in, but switch it at that point. IMHO

Hey!!! Isn't that what I said?