Overtime Chaos

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As already answered above, when the ball becomes live you've now got more than 5 team members participating. Technical foul when the ball is released on the jump by the R as per NFHS rule 10-1-6PENALTY.

You do realize that this is inconsistent with the stance you took on the similar throw-in situation in another thread today?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

You do realize that this is inconsistent with the stance you took on the similar throw-in situation in another thread today?

Yup, I knew that when I posted it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
You do realize that this is inconsistent with the stance you took on the similar throw-in situation in another thread today?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup, I knew that when I posted it.

I think that he does it just to iritate me.

[Junker]

First off, no way do you throw a T on this. There's plenty of time to sort things out before the ball goes live. As far as pointing, I was taught never to point while you count. I have heard officials get dinged for pointing and counting at camps. Personally, I think when you point while you count you look a little unsure of the game and also you call attention to the fact that you are counting. If you don't point, you can get your players counted without anyone even knowing you're doing it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Junker

First off, no way do you throw a T on this. There's plenty of time to sort things out before the ball goes live. As far as pointing, I was taught never to point while you count. I have heard officials get dinged for pointing and counting at camps. Personally, I think when you point while you count you look a little unsure of the game and also you call attention to the fact that you are counting. If you don't point, you can get your players counted without anyone even knowing you're doing it.

I hadn't thought about this before, but pointing while counting could have some unintended consequences. They all know we do it, but it may set the expectation that if a 6-player T happens, it was the officials' fault.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I hadn't thought about this before, but pointing while counting could have some unintended consequences. They all know we do it, but it may set the expectation that if a 6-player T happens, it was the officials' fault.

This is just one more item on my "I don't get it" list. I have always thought "don't point while you count" thing was one of those "it's right because I say it's right" things. What possible difference could it make whether you can be seen counting players? We are expected to count players, why not be seen doing what we're supposed to do? We are required count seconds visibly, so counting visibly isn't inherently a bad thing. So either there's a very good reason that I've never been told, or it started with some influential person's personal preference and has become a monkies and firehoses thing.

As for it being the official's fault, we get blamed either way. If they see us counting and we end up with six, they'll think official can't count or that he knew but deliberately didn't say anything. If they don't see him count, and end up with six, they think he didn't do his job. The only way to "win" is to catch this and prevent it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I hadn't thought about this before, but pointing while counting could have some unintended consequences. They all know we do it, but it may set the expectation that if a 6-player T happens, it was the officials' fault.

Bingo.

Yes, the officials should always try to prevent it, if possible. Still.....sh!t will happen. That's rule #11. But, the bottom line is that having 6 players on the floor is NEVER, EVER the official's fault. It's always the coach's fault.

It seems that some people seem to forget that little point.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Bingo.

Yes, the officials should always try to prevent it, if possible. Still.....sh!t will happen. That's rule #11. But, the bottom line is that having 6 players on the floor is NEVER, EVER the official's fault. It's always the coach's fault.

It seems that some people seem to forget that little point.

Actually, sometimes it's the fault of the player who went in the game when he wasn't told to by the coach. You can't ALWAYS hang it on the coach. That's also why this is only a Team Technical, and is not even charged as an indirect on the head coach.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Actually, sometimes it's the fault of the player who went in the game when he wasn't told to by the coach. You can't ALWAYS hang it on the coach. That's also why this is only a Team Technical, and is not even charged as an indirect on the head coach.

Yup, gotta agree with that. I still don't think that anyone should ever try to hang it on the official. Sure, we try to get it , but if we don't, oh well.....

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup, gotta agree with that. I still don't think that anyone should ever try to hang it on the official. Sure, we try to get it , but if we don't, oh well.....

Hold up big time! If you put the ball in play and there's 6 instead of 5. We miss that one. At a camp couple years ago. I felt so proud when I got that technical, 6 guys on the court, until the evaluator came over to me and said. Now, whose fault is it really? I don't think I won any points for calling that, in fact, I know I didn't.

[FishinRef]

Old School
Couple of things here. #1. If there are too many players on the court, and play begins, it is the referees fault period. Charge the technical to the offending team but we as a crew blew it. This should never happen and it's a little harder in football where you have to count up 11 players. #2. If the coach was smart, he would not say anything until the toss is release, then he can start screaming. To do it before, he just let us know (before play became live) that we got too many, and yes, I will hold the game up and get the extra player off the court, no violation, thank you coach!

There was actually 3 things wrong here. Referees didn't notice too many players on the court, the opposing coach making everyone aware before the ball is in play and finally one of the coaches sending too many players out to start the OT. Wow! That was an interesting overtime.

Just to clarify........ Referees DID notice too many players, Referees did advise players and coach. Referee held the toss until A6 got off the floor.

#2. If the coach was smart, he would not say anything until the toss is release, then he can start screaming.

My Point Exactly.

My reasoning for this post was to verify that we didn't miss something by Not Calling the T.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

Just to clarify........ Referees DID notice too many players, Referees did advise players and coach. Referee held the toss until A6 got off the floor.

My Point Exactly.

My reasoning for this post was to verify that we didn't miss something by Not Calling the T.

No, sounds like you nailed it to me. Good job!