Coach late in bringing team out for 2nd half

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Quoteth Old School

Funny, that's what I thought you meant; and you're still wrong. If game management says they told the team and the coach disputes it; I'm going with game management. Aside from that, I don't recall a rule provision that relieves the team of responsibility for this at any point for any reason.

No, you are being anal trying to find a mistake as opposed to debating the topic. Remember, we are responsible to notify the teams 3 minutes before the half is schedule to start, not the home management. I gave you a clear example of where this could be an issue. Also, I don't think it's wise to give out technicals when you don't have definite knowledge. That's like pronouncing me guilty without a trial, remember, in America, you are incident until proven guilty. After a timeout and you give 1st horn notice, now you have definite knowledge. I keep telling you it's not about us, it's about the players and the game. Quite looking for trouble.

Merry Christmas!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Old School

No, you are being anal trying to find a mistake as opposed to debating the topic. Remember, we are responsible to notify the teams 3 minutes before the half is schedule to start, not the home management. I gave you a clear example of where this could be an issue. Also, I don't think it's wise to give out technicals when you don't have definite knowledge. That's like pronouncing me guilty without a trial, remember, in America, you are incident until proven guilty. After a timeout and you give 1st horn notice, now you have definite knowledge. I keep telling you it's not about us, it's about the players and the game. Quite looking for trouble.

Merry Christmas!

If the clock runs out, I'm assuming game management did NOT notify the team and I'm sending an official to find the team. If they are not right behind the official, then we'll take care of bidness. But I'm trying to avoid that at most costs.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Old School

Remember, we are responsible to notify the teams 3 minutes before the half is schedule to start, not the home management.

2-12-1
The timer shall:
. . . Note when each half is to start and shall notify the referee more than three minutes before this time so the referee may notify the teams, or cause them to be notified, at least three minutes before the half is to start.

Actually, home management notifying the team meets the requirement. The referee does NOT have to personally contact each team.

[Ignats75]

Rule 2 Section 4 Art 4

Be responsible for having each team notified three minutes before each half is to begin.

I have never understood this to mean that I have to hunt down the team's respective lockerrooms and notify them myself. Reminding game management to be sure to do that fulfills my obligation of this duty.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I have never understood this to mean that I have to hunt down the team's respective lockerrooms and notify them myself. Reminding game management to be sure to do that fulfills my obligation of this duty.

Of course you don't have to go and notify the teams at 3 minutes.

It's not a good idea to listen to someone who doesn't own rule or case books, or the Maunual.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I have never understood this to mean that I have to hunt down the team's respective lockerrooms and notify them myself. Reminding game management to be sure to do that fulfills my obligation of this duty.

The point is, or at least my point is if you start throwing technicals based on your opinion that the home management did this, and the coach/team says they didn't. You might have open yourself up to some criticism, especially if the team loses by one. I think that's why the rule states it's the referee's responsibility. Be careful giving out T's in this situation.

If the team/s or not there ready to start the half, I'm with Rich, I'm sending someone there to get the team or I'm doing it myself. This is a rare situation where the teams are not out to start the half, but I have had it happen. I'll tell you what else to do. Freeze the clock at 1 minute or the 45 second mark, go get the team, when they enter the gym and start heading to their bench, start the one minute clock. Don't even let the one team out of there huddle to start the half without the other team being present. You also give the other team some time to get situated and get started. I learned a lot in that 5th grade girls game.

Game management my friend, goes a long way to having a successful game.

[Ignats75]

if you start throwing technicals based on your opinion that the home management did this, and the coach/team says they didn't

Back to another thread....I rarely start throwing T's around, particularly for something of this nature. But this bbs sometimes gets too hung up on the theoretical. Lets think about this scenario a little bit. First off, this rarely happens. But when a team is late coming out, what are we as officials doing? Are we standing on our blocks waiting? Are we conferring together? Are we talking about what bar we are going to after the game?

First thing I will do when I recognize this situation is happening is go to the table and ask if the offending team was notified at the 3:00 mark. (Because its usually the scoreboard operator that has this duty) If that person says, "Oh crap! I forgot!" I'll have him go and get the team right away and hold off with the heavyhandedness. (Virtually every time I've seen this situation happen, this was the reason).

However, if the team was definitely notified, then, and only then, will I enforce the letter of the law. If the home team failed to notify the visitors, and I whacked them for failure to come out timely, I'm pretty sure that a fairly unhappy coach would complain about me to the league office and I would be hearing from the commissioner.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I learned a lot in that 5th grade girls game.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Lets think about this scenario a little bit. First off, this rarely happens. True and I stated that. But when a team is late coming out, what are we as officials doing? Are we standing on our blocks waiting? Are we conferring together? Are we talking about what bar we are going to after the game? You should be conferring about where the other team is at, or the R is at table finding out.

First thing I will do when I recognize this situation is happening is go to the table and ask if the offending team was notified at the 3:00 mark. (Because its usually the scoreboard operator that has this duty) If that person says, "Oh crap! I forgot!" I'll have him go and get the team right away and hold off with the heavyhandedness. (Virtually every time I've seen this situation happen, this was the reason). Don't forget to stop the clock at the 1 minute mark. Start it the minute they walk in.

However, if the team was definitely notified, then, and only then, will I enforce the letter of the law. If the home team failed to notify the visitors, and I whacked them for failure to come out timely, I'm pretty sure that a fairly unhappy coach would complain about me to the league office and I would be hearing from the commissioner.

Bingo, my point exactly! There are enough things that can happen that can get us in trouble, no need going out looking for it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Old School

The point is, or at least my point is if you start throwing technicals based on your opinion that the home management did this, and the coach/team says they didn't. You might have open yourself up to some criticism, especially if the team loses by one. I think that's why the rule states it's the referee's responsibility. Be careful giving out T's in this situation.

Okay, I understand the he said, she said thing, but if the management person tells me that he notified the team at the 3 minute mark, then I'm enforcing the rule. In short, I'm believing that person over the coach and if the team wants to protest to the state office that's fine. I'll let the administrators sort out who is telling the truth and who is lying.

Originally Posted by Old School

I'll tell you what else to do. Freeze the clock at 1 minute or the 45 second mark, go get the team, when they enter the gym and start heading to their bench, start the one minute clock. Don't even let the one team out of there huddle to start the half without the other team being present.

You have absolutely no authority to do either one of those things. In fact, by doing the first one, you are setting aside a rule, namely 5-5-1. For the second item, the team certainly can be out on the court during halftime (2-7-4).

Making up your own rules and telling teams that they may not do something which the rules clearly say they can are very bad ideas.

Originally Posted by Old School

Game management my friend, goes a long way to having a successful game.

And so does following the rules!