Rules Question from a basketball coach...

[TopGun]

Two things happened in a big game for us the other night. (I am a Head Boys Basketball Coach in Texas).

Scenario One:
We get a delay of game warning for touching the ball coming out of the net after we scored. Later on, we do it again and get the technical called on us.
Question One:
Is this delay of game indirect technical also a personal foul on the player who touched the ball?

Scenario Two:
We are up with little time on the clock, we get a steal, go in for a lay up and get an intentional foul called for a push from behind. Not flagrant, but intentional. We MADE the shot.
Question Two:
What is the correct course of action on this call?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by TopGun

Two things happened in a big game for us the other night. (I am a Head Boys Basketball Coach in Texas).

Scenario One:
We get a delay of game warning for touching the ball coming out of the net after we scored. Later on, we do it again and get the technical called on us.
Question One:
Is this delay of game indirect technical also a personal foul on the player who touched the ball?

If you are a HS boys coach using NFHS rules, then this is properly called a Team Technical foul. It is rule 10-1-5d. It is not charged to any particular individual. It does count as one team foul towards your total for the opponents reaching the bonus. It does not cause the head coach to lose the coaching box. The penalty is 2FTs and the awarding of the ball to the opponents at the division line opposite the table.

Originally Posted by TopGun

Scenario Two:
We are up with little time on the clock, we get a steal, go in for a lay up and get an intentional foul called for a push from behind. Not flagrant, but intentional. We MADE the shot.
Question Two:
What is the correct course of action on this call?

Again for NFHS rules:

The basket counts and the player who was fouled is awarded 2FTs with no one on the lane. (Yes, that is TWO FTs that are awarded even though the goal was scored.) Following the FTs the offended team is awarded the ball OOB at the nearest spot to the location of the foul.

The opponent is charged with one personal foul to the player who fouled and it counts as one team foul towards the opponent reaching the bonus.

[TopGun]

Thank you sir, and we in Texas do use the NFHS rule book.
The first one, they got correct, even though the opposing coach begged to differ.
The second one, they gave us THREE free throws and the ball. They seemed confused for some reason. Not sure if they were giving us the "and 1" and then the two free throws or what? Did not effect the outcome so no harm done.

[TopGun]

So it's NOT a foul that counts towards DQ correct?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by TopGun

O.K. now I'm confused again.
If it is an indirect technical and not counted towards the individual, how does it count toward his DQ? That is the concern of the other coach, that kid ended up with 4 fouls and they did NOT count the indirect towards his DQ.

Coach,
Trust me on this one. It is NOT an indirect technical foul at all. Under NFHS rules the only person on a team who can be charged with an indirect technical foul is the Head Coach. The offense you described is a TEAM technical foul. There is a nice chart on page 73 of the rules book, which you can consult.

Also, did the officials credit the basket on your play in addition to incorrectly giving you three FTs or did they merely give you the FTs? Plus did they make the kid who was fouled shoot the FTs or did they let you pick anyone?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by TopGun

The second one, they gave us THREE free throws and the ball.

They should do this only if the shooter was intentionally fouled in the act of shooting a 3 pointer and it was unsuccessful.

[bigdogrunnin]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If you are a HS boys coach using NFHS rules, then this is properly called a Team Technical foul. It is rule 10-1-5d. It is not charged to any particular individual. It does count as one team foul towards your total for the opponents reaching the bonus. It does not cause the head coach to lose the coaching box. The penalty is 2FTs and the awarding of the ball to the opponents at the division line opposite the table.



Again for NFHS rules:

The basket counts and the player who was fouled is awarded 2FTs with no one on the lane. (Yes, that is TWO FTs that are awarded even though the goal was scored.) Following the FTs the offended team is awarded the ball OOB at the nearest spot to the location of the foul.

The opponent is charged with one personal foul to the player who fouled and it counts as one team foul towards the opponent reaching the bonus.

Thanks Nevada. I know TOO MANY officials who still get both of these wrong. Of course, I have been on the wrong end of each as well.

[Adam]

I'll add only one more thing. On the delay technicals; if B1 reaches across the boundary plane during a throwin and the team has already been warned, it's a Team Tech that only counts towards the team's foul count (but not the player's). If B1 reaches across and slaps the ball, the Tech is charged directly to the player.

[Texas Aggie]

1. (Oops! NR is right).

2. Assuming the official ruled the player fouled as in the act of shooting (and it sounds like that may not have happened), the shot should count, the player gets the 2 free throws, and your team gets the ball for a throw in nearest the spot of the foul. If the player was ruled to not have been in the act of shooting, its 2 shots and the ball.

So what happened?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

1. 1. It's not a Personal foul, but it does count toward the 5 total fouls for DQ purposes. Remember, the DQ rule for players is at 5 fouls (personal and technical), 2 technical fouls, or 1 flagrant (personal or technical) foul.

2. Assuming the official ruled the player fouled as in the act of shooting (and it sounds like that may not have happened), the shot should count, the player gets the 2 free throws, and your team gets the ball for a throw in nearest the spot of the foul. If the player was ruled to not have been in the act of shooting, its 2 shots and the ball.

So what happened?

TX, I'm sure you will check your book and see that your answer to #1 is not right.

Good point on #2. The scoring of the goal does depend upon the decision of the official as to whether the fouled player was in the act of shooting at the time of the foul.

[TopGun]

He was ruled in the act of shooting and they did count the bucket whixh was correct. We shot two free throws, they talked for a long time, and then we shot ANOTHER one, and then got the ball OOB!

I know we are all posting at the same time, so just to be clear... THE INDIRECT DOES NOT GO TOWARDS DQ, CORRECT!?

Sorry, I keep calling it indirect because that is what they were saying, not because I don't believe you! TEAM TECHNICAL!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by TopGun

He was ruled in the act of shooting and they did count the bucket whixh was correct. We shot two free throws, they talked for a long time, and then we shot ANOTHER one, and then got the ball OOB!

I know we are all posting at the same time, so just to be clear... THE INDIRECT DOES NOT GO TOWARDS DQ, CORRECT!?

Sorry, I keep calling it indirect because that is what they were saying, not because I don't believe you! TEAM TECHNICAL!

You are correct that this technical foul is NOT charged to that player in any way. It does not count as one of his five fouls towards disqualification. Also NOTHING is charged to the player who knocked the ball away earlier that resulted in the team warning for delay.

BTW where did the officials award your team the throw-in -- on the end line near the basket or out a midcourt?

[TopGun]

They awarded it Baseline Out of Bounds under our own goal on the side that the free throw was shot on. Correct I assume?

[Texas Aggie]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

TX, I'm sure you will check your book and see that your answer to #1 is not right.

As you can see, I quickly changed it, however, in 10.3.6, it is a player (not team) T to "delay the game by acts such as...", so an official could rule that a player himself is delaying the game. I'm not saying you should look for this, but be aware that in certain situations, this might be appropriate under similar circumstances as the facts listed. Then, once it is a player T, it does count toward the 5 for that player.

If he's on his way back down court and just flicks the ball toward the baseline, that still fits under section 1.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

As you can see, I quickly changed it, however, in 10.3.6, it is a player (not team) T to "delay the game by acts such as...", so an official could rule that a player himself is delaying the game. I'm not saying you should look for this, but be aware that in certain situations, this might be appropriate under similar circumstances as the facts listed. Then, once it is a player T, it does count toward the 5 for that player.

If he's on his way back down court and just flicks the ball toward the baseline, that still fits under section 1.

The NFHS has already looked into it. After they did, they issued case book play 10.1.5SitD. That states that an official should call a team technical foul, not a player technical foul.