Pitt/OKState clock error

[TriggerMN]

30.1 seconds left in the Pittsburgh-Oklahoma State game. Pitt down 3, shooting the 2nd free throw of 2. Free throw is missed. Pitt rebounds, passes, and makes a 3-pointer to tie the game. The clock never started until the ball passed through the hoop. At this point it starts while Oklahoma State is attempting to inbound. It runs down to 24.2 before it stops on the official's whistle.

After reviewing the play on the monitor, the officials put 25.1 seconds on the clock.

Can someone give a rule reference as to why?

With no definite knowledge of how much time should have run off, shouldn't they set it back to 30.1 and chalk it up to a timer's error? Can NCAA officials use a stopwatch and a monitor to correctly determine how much time to take off the clock in this situation?

[OHBBREF]

NCAA the clock should have stopped when the basket went in - so they went to the monitor to see how much time ran off - I thought from the rplay they showed us that it was closer to 27 seconds but they have the ability to syncronize the clocks on that monitor court side so I would presume with all of the time they took they got it right.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

NCAA the clock should have stopped when the basket went in

The real problem is that the clock never started when unsuccessful free throw was touched inbounds. The clock started after it went through the basket for the subsequent 3-point basket.

Without being in the huddle, I think that the referee (Ed Hightower?) went to the monitor and watched it in real time and counted off 5 seconds. I was sitting on my couch watching the replay, saying "one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three. . ." and I got to 5. My guess is that Mr. Hightower counted manually so he'd have definite knowledge and then told the clock operator to take off 5 seconds from the original time.

Anyone also notice that as they were sorting out the timing error, a sub reported to enter the game? The officials correctly denied his entry into the game.

By the way, was that just a fantastic game to watch, or what? Close the whole way, good officiating and double OT.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

By the way, was that just a fantastic game to watch, or what? Close the whole way, good officiating and double OT.

BTW, that's rule 3-4-7. For some reason it is worded differently for the men's and women's side. Can anyone shed any light on why NCAA-M and NCAA-W don't used the same wording for this rule?

• Art. 7. (Men) Substitution shall not be allowed when the game is stopped
  in the last 59.9 seconds of the second half or any extra period to correct a
  timing mistake or for an inadvertent whistle.

• Art. 7. (Women) Substitutions shall not be allowed when the game is
  stopped in the last 59.9 seconds of the second half or any extra period for
  anything other than a timeout, a violation or a foul.

[Kelvin green]

NCAA womens rules are closer to the NBA/WNBA that does not allow subs (as it says) in violation foul or time out....

Think about this one, in the Men's and NFHS by the way... you call a delay of game warning and you blow the whistle.... substitute allowed. in NCAA women it is not...( at least in the last minute) This prevents a team from stopping the clock and benefitting from the act, or anyother time that we may have an issue...

Personally this is another rule the NBA has right- Should not be able to substitute when there is somesort of abnormal delay

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Can anyone shed any light on why NCAA-M and NCAA-W don't used the same wording for this rule?

Doesn't the clock stop on made baskets in NCAA-W in the last minute? No subs during that time.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Doesn't the clock stop on made baskets in NCAA-W in the last minute? No subs during that time.

It stops for NCAA-M & NCAA-W. But that has no bearing on the question. Kelvin gave me the type of example I was looking for. (again, sorry for ending a sentence with a preposition)

[Scrapper1]

Personally, I like the women's rule better than the men's. There's no ambiguity about it.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Personally, I like the women's rule better than the men's. There's no ambiguity about it.

Wow, you are truly wise beyond your years...

Oh, never mind.

It's nice to see you like the women's side. Do you work much NCAA-W?

[TriggerMN]

So does anyone actually have a rule reference for dropping the clock to 25.1?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by TriggerMN

So does anyone actually have a rule reference for dropping the clock to 25.1?

Yes, read all of rule 2-5-2.

[JRutledge]

I do not think it matters which is better. This is only an opinion. The bottom line is the Men's side wants to make it clear that a timing mistake and an inadvertent whistle are to be handled the same way in this time frame. Not sure why someone needs to tell you a substitute can be made during a timeout. Of course a substitution can be made during a timeout, foul or violation, Duuuhhhh!!!! They have to put this into the rule so you know this?

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not sure why someone needs to tell you a substitute can be made during a timeout. Of course a substitution can be made during a timeout, foul or violation, Duuuhhhh!!!!

That's not what the rule says. It's not saying that the sub CAN come in after a foul, violation or time-out. The rule says that during the last minute, a sub can ONLY come in after a foul, violation or timeout. This eliminates the situation of the official blowing the whistle because the ball bounced away from the inbounder, for example. On the men's side, there's a question of whether we should allow the sub or not. It doesn't seem like an inadvertant whistle, and it's not a timing problem; so the sub is ok, right? Well, no. We got a clarification saying not to allow the sub.

But on the women's side, you don't need the clarification. It's not a foul, violation or a time-out, so NO SUB. Much simpler and clearer, IMHO.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

That's not what the rule says. It's not saying that the sub CAN come in after a foul, violation or time-out. The rule says that during the last minute, a sub can ONLY come in after a foul, violation or timeout. This eliminates the situation of the official blowing the whistle because the ball bounced away from the inbounder, for example. On the men's side, there's a question of whether we should allow the sub or not. It doesn't seem like an inadvertant whistle, and it's not a timing problem; so the sub is ok, right? Well, no. We got a clarification saying not to allow the sub.

But on the women's side, you don't need the clarification. It's not a foul, violation or a time-out, so NO SUB. Much simpler and clearer, IMHO.

Why do you need clarification for something that is obvious? Of course you can sub during a foul, violation or timeout. You can do that any time during the game. There was never anything special about that when the clock reads less than a minute to go in the game. If you remember the rule was put into place to not allow subs just because there was a timing mistake or inadvertent whistle. If you call a foul or violation or have a timeout, there is no where that prohibits under the Men's rules. If you think there is confusion (in my opinion) you are not understanding the reason the rule was created or the spirit of the rule in my opinion. The Men's committee did not change the substitution regulations to accommodate this rule.

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why do you need clarification for something that is obvious?

Because it wasn't obvious.

Of course you can sub during a foul, violation or timeout. You can do that any time during the game.

You are completely missing the point, so I will stop responding now. Have a merry Christmas.