What would it take for a double T on a 13 year old boy?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

fans can leave with the feeling that the one ref had it in for the kid.

The next time that I worry about what the fans think will be the first time.

You don't ignore unsporting behavior. You don't turn your back at unsporting behavior. You take care of bidness.

That "T's coming from two different officials" philosophy is meant for certain situations only imo. It sureasheck isn't meant for a ballplayer/coach that simply refuses to stop yapping, especially after having received a "T" already for doing so.

[Zoochy]

While reading this thread. The song playing on the radio had the lyrics..
"Nay nay nay nay... nay nay nay nay... hey hey... goodbye..... "
I guess that sums it up.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

While reading this thread. The song playing on the radio had the lyrics..
"Nay nay nay nay... nay nay nay nay... hey hey... goodbye..... "
I guess that sums it up.

I was hearing the "Left, right, left, right, SIT" chant from the student section.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The next time that I worry about what the fans think will be the first time.

You don't ignore unsporting behavior. You don't turn your back at unsporting behavior. You take care of bidness.

That "T's coming from two different officials" philosophy is meant for certain situations only imo. It sureasheck isn't meant for a ballplayer/coach that simply refuses to stop yapping, especially after having received a "T" already for doing so.

Who said anything about ignoring unsporting behavior? All I said was

Originally Posted by Lil 'ol Me

I'd rather that my partner got him the second time if he needed it.

and

Originally Posted by Me Again

IMHO it is usually better if multiple T's come from different partners.

I never said don't give the kid the second T. Nor have I said to turn your back on unsporting behavior.

[OHBBREF]

Mind you I am never afraid to whack any one twice in a game - or back to back - if needed I have done it at all levels over the years.
I am saying that it is preferable if it can happen that way that two technicals on the same person - are issued by two different officials -
in this case as an example - foul call by ref A - player complains T by ref A - continued complaining after ref A walks away - T by Ref B - it looks better on tape - to assignors defending your actions and as a crew having a united front.
Does it happen that way very often - probably not - but that is the way my college assignors and upper level Prep and High school assignors would like to see it happen in an ideal world.

But if the player needs to whacked two, three, or four times in a row ...
take care of business!

[deecee]

I whacked this one kid in a game and noone has seen or heard from him since -- if you have to whack twice you might need whacking practice

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Mind you I am never afraid to whack any one twice in a game - or back to back - if needed I have done it at all levels over the years.
I am saying that it is preferable if it can happen that way that two technicals on the same person - are issued by two different officials -

It is preferable if everyone thinks every call I make is a great call, but we know that is not going to happen anytime soon.

Look, if you are standing there and a player or coach cannot control themselves in a way not to get hit again, then shame on them.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

in this case as an example - foul call by ref A - player complains T by ref A - continued complaining after ref A walks away - T by Ref B - it looks better on tape - to assignors defending your actions and as a crew having a united front
.
Does it happen that way very often - probably not - but that is the way my college assignors and upper level Prep and High school assignors would like to see it happen in an ideal world.

I disagree completely with that. It looks like you're afraid to take care of your own business. The player was b!tching at you, not your partner. On tape to me, it looks like your partner had to come in and bail you out because you wouldn't penalize obvious unsporting behavior that was aimed directly at you.

I also disagree that upper-level assignors everywhere want to see that situation handled that way. Your's might, but I doubt that it's unanimous. Imo, most assignors/evaluators want to see whether an official will take care of bidness himself or whether they will walk away from conflict.

Again jmo, but I think that there's just too damn much over-analysis and over-thinking going on re: these types of plays anymore. And that's exactly why the NCAA and NFHS are constantly putting out POE's and directives to try and curtail unsporting behavior. If an unsporting act happens, just call the damn thing. Too many officials seem to think that they're failing in game mangement 101 if they do happen to call a "T".

End of rant.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Look, if you are standing there and a player or coach cannot control themselves in a way not to get hit again, then shame on them.

A-freaking-men!

[Junker]

Nice rant JR. I agree. Throwing a T doesn't mean you can't manage a game, it means a player or coach cannot manage themselves. Wow, that sounds kind of deep.

[OHBBREF]

JR nice rant - I see your point - if the actions are immediate bang, bang, bang, then yes it should be foul - Whack - Whack - I have no problem there -
If you call the foul and the player rants WHACK him no big deal - but to walk away is to give the player the oportunity not to get whacked again - if they want it they surely will get it! from you or your partners.It is not a test of your manhood. You have taken care of business already - it is time for your partners to step up and take care of business too! If you have to go back and get him do so - then chew your partners out in the locker room for not having your back after the game.
How do you address the handling of T's in your pre-game?
in ours we don ot say Whack'em and stand there waiting to give the next one -
We walk away to report and a partner moves in, that is where the second one usually comes from!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Mind you I am never afraid to whack any one twice in a game - or back to back - if needed I have done it at all levels over the years.
I am saying that it is preferable if it can happen that way that two technicals on the same person - are issued by two different officials -
in this case as an example - foul call by ref A - player complains T by ref A - continued complaining after ref A walks away - T by Ref B - it looks better on tape - to assignors defending your actions and as a crew having a united front.
Does it happen that way very often - probably not - but that is the way my college assignors and upper level Prep and High school assignors would like to see it happen in an ideal world.

But if the player needs to whacked two, three, or four times in a row ...
take care of business!

Don't try to back off and fix it up now.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

JR nice rant - I see your point - if the actions are immediate bang, bang, bang, then yes it should be foul - Whack - Whack - I have no problem there -
If you call the foul and the player rants WHACK him no big deal - but to walk away is to give the player the oportunity not to get whacked again - if they want it they surely will get it! from you or your partners.It is not a test of your manhood. You have taken care of business already - it is time for your partners to step up and take care of business too! If you have to go back and get him do so - then chew your partners out in the locker room for not having your back after the game.
How do you address the handling of T's in your pre-game?
in ours we don ot say Whack'em and stand there waiting to give the next one -
We walk away to report and a partner moves in, that is where the second one usually comes from!

Whichever way the wind blows, huh?

Similar to what JR said, if you want to stand out to an assigner or at a camp, have the intestinal fortitude to do what is right. It might be two technicals or one technical and the door. I put the theory or two officials needing to give two technicals in the same bag of BS with constantly validating watching the ball all over the floor. "BOO, BOO"

[Adam]

Originally Posted by coach mb

Thanks to all for the feedback. I have the same thoughts, had to be there, stand by the official.

Another question. Official B issued T's (not a double T ), same official has the next game for this team. Player can't play, if you were official B, would you get someone else to cover it?

Absolutely not! If it's me, I'm working that game.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I disagree completely with that. It looks like you're afraid to take care of your own business. The player was b!tching at you, not your partner. On tape to me, it looks like your partner had to come in and bail you out because you wouldn't penalize obvious unsporting behavior that was aimed directly at you.

This is very bad advice. If you whack a kid or a coach for bad behavior, get out of there! It is not about you. Go to the table, report your technical then go to other side of the court. You do not need to hit them with another tech right away, you got administrative duties to perform, go do that. Game management skills.

I also disagree that upper-level assignors everywhere want to see that situation handled that way. Your's might, but I doubt that it's unanimous. Imo, most assignors/evaluators want to see whether an official will take care of bidness himself or whether they will walk away from conflict.

Totally disagree again. Part of my pre-game, especially big games, especially games where a clinician might be there. You call a technical, report it and go to the other side of the court. This is good technique! You are emotional, coach is emotional. What we don't want to happen at that precise moment is you to give the coach/player another T and they are ejected.

Walking away from conflict? That's putting it too simple. It's how you handle conflict that's important, and you addressed it with a technical, and you walked away. Most assigners want to see how well you call a game, get into position, your judgement on the floor, under fire. I think after you access a T and you go to the opposite side of the court will please the assigners better than you standing there giving them 2 technicals.

Again jmo, but I think that there's just too damn much over-analysis and over-thinking going on re: these types of plays anymore. And that's exactly why the NCAA and NFHS are constantly putting out POE's and directives to try and curtail unsporting behavior. If an unsporting act happens, just call the damn thing. Too many officials seem to think that they're failing in game mangement 101 if they do happen to call a "T".End of rant.....

Thank god because that's exactly what that was. Quite telling officials to go out and call multiple technical's. One technical is good and it shows you have attempted to address the situation. Now, get away from the situation momentarily to give it a chance to slimmer down. If a 2nd T needs to get called, it will get called. Hopefully, it's not at the same time and not by the same official.