Violation or Absolutely Nothing???

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

If you wanted to split hairs, B1 violated by leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. Team A could have been called for a delay of game prior to B1 stepping out also. Which was covered as a POE this year. You have a bag full of tricks you could validate on this one. Delay of game would have gotten you out of trouble as it was the initial violation. Just my opinion.

Delay of game is not a violation. The new delay warning is for not having the court ready following a timeout. When they do not break the huddle after the second horn, the RPP is used to handle that situation. No delay of game by team A here.

[Adam]

Agreed, Smitty. The only delay of game you can call here is on B1 for crossing the OOB plane during a throwin. I'd probably ignore this, as it's not really affecting the play if he doesn't touch the ball.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed, Smitty. The only delay of game you can call here is on B1 for crossing the OOB plane during a throwin. I'd probably ignore this, as it's not really affecting the play if he doesn't touch the ball.

Besides, no true advantage is gained while stepping off the court since A isn't even on the court yet. This is just not an appropriate time to call a delay of game warning on B!

[Nevadaref]

9-2-11 . . . The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary-line plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

PENALTIES: (Art. 11)
1. The first violation of the throw-in boundary-line plane by an opponent(s) of the thrower shall result in a team warning for delay being given (one delay warning per team per game). The warning does not result in the loss of the opportunity to move along the end line when and if applicable.
2. The second or additional violations will result in a technical foul assessed to the offending team. See 10-1-10 Penalty.

PENALTY: (Section 2) The ball becomes dead when the violation or technical foul occurs. Following a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in at the original throw-in spot.


It is in fact a violation for the opponent to break the throw-in boundary-line plane. The result is a team warning for delay or a technical foul if the team had been given a previous warning of any kind.
When the result is only a warning the game is resumed with a new throw-in as after any other violation.

If I were the administering official, I would enforce the rule and call the violation on B1 for breaking the throw-in plane and assess either the team warning for delay or a team technical foul as appropriate.

To fail to make this call unfairly penalizes Team A. The actions are Team A were legal at this time due to the RPP.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If I were the administering official, I would enforce the rule and call the violation on B1 for breaking the throw-in plane and assess either the team warning for delay or a team technical foul as appropriate.

To fail to make this call unfairly penalizes Team A. The actions are Team A were legal at this time due to the RPP.

Not so sure I agree. The throwin plane violation exists solely to prevent the defender from interfering with the ability of the thrower to make the throwin. Would anyone even consider calling the warning if a defender 50 feet down the sideline waived his arms across the line...even if it were by a full arm length? I didn't think so.

With no thrower, what possible purpose does calling a plane violation serve? More than likely B is worried that it is their ball and they're supposed to be there. Before putting the ball down, make absolutely sure that the defending team knows it is not their ball.

[Adam]

I've already changed my mind once today. I'm a guy, and that's my limit. Pro's for calling the delay of game: it's the rule. Team B just bailed out Team A, and it's their own fault. If A1 comes out and sees B1 behind the line reaching for the ball, he's less likely to go grab it. B1 just being there can be confusing and cause a delay of game.
Con's for calling it: B1 is likely just confused.
D@mmit. I just did it again.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not so sure I agree. The throwin plane violation exists solely to prevent the defender from interfering with the ability of the thrower to make the throwin. Would anyone even consider calling the warning if a defender 50 feet down the sideline waived his arms across the line...even if it were by a full arm length? I didn't think so.

With no thrower, what possible purpose does calling a plane violation serve? More than likely B is worried that it is their ball and they're supposed to be there. Before putting the ball down, make absolutely sure that the defending team knows it is not their ball.

Agree. Give a big point in the direction the ball is going and a big verbal "A ball" at the same time too And if a defender still tries to wander OOB, a quiet little "Get your azz back on the court" from the administering official might also be the right way to go. If you you've done something like Dan recommended, you've gone the extra mile already with A to get them out of the huddle. If they want to still ignore you, it's on them. By rule, Nevada is right. But all you're really doing is bailing team A out because the plane violation by the defense had absolutely no bearing at all on the play.

[FishinRef]

Agree. Give a big point in the direction the ball is going and a big verbal "A ball" at the same time too And if a defender still tries to wander OOB, a quiet little "Get your azz back on the court" from the administering official might also be the right way to go. If you you've done something like Dan recommended, you've gone the extra mile already with A to get them out of the huddle. If they want to still ignore you, it's on them. By rule, Nevada is right. But all you're really doing is bailing team A out because the plane violation by the defense had absolutely no bearing at all on the play.

I continually find myself siding more and more with Jurassic Referee's opinions on rules interpretations. I may need to seek professional counseling.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Besides, no true advantage is gained while stepping off the court since A isn't even on the court yet. This is just not an appropriate time to call a delay of game warning on B!

Hey rook, once you've put the ball on the floor you are flying by the book. Throw out any notions of what's appropriate now, you've already crossed that line.

Nevada got it right.

As for what's appropriate...all that you need to avoid this mess is for an official to walk over to coach A and tell him to get his team ready on the first horn. When the second horn sounds step into the huddle and ask if he wants another time out. That will get his attention.