Team Control Foul Question

[jdw3018]

Both Team A and Team B are in the bonus. A1 is dribbling in the front court when B1 reaches in and bats the ball loose into the lane. In the process of going for the loose ball, A2 fouls B2 prior to any player controlling the ball.

The way I read the rule, this is a team control foul and there should be no free throw. Correct?

This is the one time I feel the team control foul is unfair...

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Both Team A and Team B are in the bonus. A1 is dribbling in the front court when B1 reaches in and bats the ball loose into the lane. In the process of going for the loose ball, A2 fouls B2 prior to any player controlling the ball.

The way I read the rule, this is a team control foul and there should be no free throw. Correct?

Correct.

This is the one time I feel the team control foul is unfair...

JMO, but I think it's perfectly fair. The definition of team control is very clear and this fits the definition. It may seem unfair, just because we're used to seeing the NBA's "loose ball foul"; but the NBA's definition of team control is different from ours.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Both Team A and Team B are in the bonus. A1 is dribbling in the front court when B1 reaches in and bats the ball loose into the lane. In the process of going for the loose ball, A2 fouls B2 prior to any player controlling the ball.

The way I read the rule, this is a team control foul and there should be no free throw. Correct?

This is the one time I feel the team control foul is unfair...

Team control is still for team A. We (FIBA) have the same rule: no free throws on team control (common) foul.

Is it unfair? I don't know, but the line has to be drawn somewhere: team control is an objective fact. Would you assign free throws based on the distance of the ball from the player who was holding or dribbling it? If more than one meter (sorry, 3 ft ) would you assign FTs? Then, what about a foul during a pass?

Unfortunately, in situations like this one there are frequent mistakes, when the official only looks at the loose ball and doesn't think to team control. Does this happen also there?

Ciao

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Unfortunately, in situations like this one there are frequent mistakes, when the official only looks at the loose ball and doesn't think to team control. Does this happen also there?

I'm just getting started again after not officiating for a couple years so it hasn't happened to me yet - but yes, I've seen it happen already here this year in a HS JV game.

You're also right - there's no good way I can think of to differentiate when a "loose ball" foul should be team control and when it shouldn't, unless NFHS went to a specific loose ball foul call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

You're also right - there's no good way I can think of to differentiate when a "loose ball" foul should be team control and when it shouldn't, unless NFHS went to a specific loose ball foul call.

The NFHS did go to a specific loose ball foul. To call the play correctly, you have to know and understand rule 4-12 completely.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The NFHS did go to a specific loose ball foul. To call the play correctly, you have to know and understand rule 4-12 completely.

I'll look it up when I get home - guess I'm unclear on this one.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I'll look it up when I get home - guess I'm unclear on this one.

JR is merely telling you that there are times in an NFHS game when the ball is loose and there is no team control. A foul during that time would not be a team control foul and FTs would be awarded if merited.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The NFHS did go to a specific loose ball foul. To call the play correctly, you have to know and understand rule 4-12 completely.

Wait.

Either the ball is in a team's control or it is not.

I don't see anything at all about a loose ball foul in 4-12. In fact (Nevada) they go out of their way to say a loose ball remains in control of the team that had it last except during a try/tap for goal.

[Nevadaref]

Yeah, I know all that and I'm sure that JR does too. What I wrote is the only reason that I could think of for why he would make that comment.

Perhaps he was just being a smartass, but I know that he understands the rule.

[TimTaylor]

A couple specific situations come to mind:
1> Team control ends when the ball is released on a try/tap for goal. If the try/tap is unsuccessful, then there is no team control until a player from either team gains control of the rebound.
2> On a throw in there is no team control. As above, team control is not established until a player from either team gains player control of the inbounded ball.

In all other situations, team control of a loose ball remains with the team that last had it until either an opponent gains player control or a violation occurs.

[rainmaker]

Hey, TIm, are you signed up on the OAOA board yet? Let's go over there and start a heated discussion about something, shall we? Got any good subjects we could toss around?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

A couple specific situations come to mind:
1> Team control ends when the ball is released on a try/tap for goal. If the try/tap is unsuccessful, then there is no team control until a player from either team gains control of the rebound.
2> On a throw in there is no team control. As above, team control is not established until a player from either team gains player control of the inbounded ball.

In all other situations, team control of a loose ball remains with the team that last had it until either an opponent gains player control or a violation occurs.

3> During a jump ball, up to the time when control is set by one team or the other.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

3> During a jump ball, up to the time when control is set by one team or the other.

Thanks! Forgot that one.......yesterday was a long day capped with a pretty sloppy preseason girls game - the kind that makes your brain want to turn to mush.......

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Hey, TIm, are you signed up on the OAOA board yet? Let's go over there and start a heated discussion about something, shall we? Got any good subjects we could toss around?

Yeah, I signed up last week. I checked it a couple times over the weekend, but nothing much there except Jack's initial post.........

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I'll look it up when I get home - guess I'm unclear on this one.

Nothing to be unclear about. You just need to know when there is team control and when there is no team control. That will keep you out of trouble.